Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40
41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59
itjstagame
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 11-2006
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 60
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: AMEC Economy Run II and Go-Kart Challenge
Another thing I'd like to see, kind of unrelated and really hard to do, would be an aerodynamics challenge. Like a good flat road with no one around (maybe old airport runway?) and calculate everyones base Cd and Crr. And then everyone gets a couple hours to mod or put back on their previous mods and try again. And then if we want to make it an all day thing maybe we can have discussion and lots of duct tape and coroplast available and do a third one. Having classes for best above stock and best improvement (increase from 3rd and 2nd run).
Or something! I really enjoyed myself and like that you guys are so active on the idea.
|
|
10/9/2008, 8:15 am
|
Send Email to itjstagame
Send PM to itjstagame
|
Mark Long
Administrator
Global user
Registered: 10-2006
Location: Clinton, NY
Posts: 437
Karma: 1 (+1/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: AMEC Economy Run II and Go-Kart Challenge
quote:
Mike Kamm wrote:
We can't beat the Prius' in low speed city mpg's that's for sure. But if we sped up the event this past Sunday to 2.5 hours, I think I might have had Hobbit. 
That is an interesting idea. I averaged about 40 mph over roads that are posted 55. If we put in a 2.5 hour time limit that would bring the average mph to 47. Dave B. did the course in 2 1/2 and I bet he never exceeded the speed limit anywhere.
---
Mark Long
34 E
|
|
10/9/2008, 3:27 pm
|
Send Email to Mark Long
Send PM to Mark Long
AIM
Blog
|
Mark Long
Administrator
Global user
Registered: 10-2006
Location: Clinton, NY
Posts: 437
Karma: 1 (+1/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: AMEC Economy Run II and Go-Kart Challenge
quote:
itjstagame wrote:
http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=8322
Check the bottom of that page, there's pics of what I'm up against, that engine bay is mighty empty for an engine with 23,751 vacuum lines.
The think it is 24 vacuum lines  Yeah that is going to be a challenge with that cut wiring harness, missing wipers hardware, ETC.
2 questions
Is the floor rusted
Are all of the plastic fenders and nose still there?
---
Mark Long
34 E
|
|
10/9/2008, 3:33 pm
|
Send Email to Mark Long
Send PM to Mark Long
AIM
Blog
|
Mike Kamm
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 07-2004
Location: Averill Park, NY
Posts: 5585
Karma: 18 (+19/-1)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: AMEC Economy Run II and Go-Kart Challenge
quote:
itjstagame wrote:
Another thing I'd like to see, kind of unrelated and really hard to do, would be an aerodynamics challenge. Like a good flat road with no one around (maybe old airport runway?) and calculate everyones base Cd and Crr. And then everyone gets a couple hours to mod or put back on their previous mods and try again. And then if we want to make it an all day thing maybe we can have discussion and lots of duct tape and coroplast available and do a third one. Having classes for best above stock and best improvement (increase from 3rd and 2nd run).
Or something! I really enjoyed myself and like that you guys are so active on the idea.
I like your enthusiasm Chris. Your ideas sound interesting but they would be quite difficult to do. Finding an old airport runway that we could use is not as easy as it sounds. Better yet, do you know of anyone with a wind tunnel we could borrow some time on? Now that's what we really need!
|
|
10/9/2008, 5:06 pm
|
Send Email to Mike Kamm
Send PM to Mike Kamm
|
Lug Nut
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 10-2008
Location: Central MA
Posts: 31
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: AMEC Economy Run II and Go-Kart Challenge
quote:
itjstagame wrote:
Another thing I'd like to see, kind of unrelated and really hard to do, would be an aerodynamics challenge. Like a good flat road with no one around (maybe old airport runway?) and calculate everyone's base Cd and Crr.
Actually rather easy to estimate quite closely with simple roll-down tests.
Car rolling on flat and level at a slow speed, say 5 mph. At a given mark the car is put in neutral and allowed to coast to a stop. Distance from the mark is measured. Initial speed is 5 mph, final speed is zero mph, distance can be used to determine deceleration rate, at 5 mph almost none from air drag, almost all from rolling resistance.
Air drag is done similarly but from say 50 to 45 mph. How much time (or distance) is needed to drop 5 mph is the deceleration rate. Subtract the CRR effect from above and the result is air drag (Cd x area) effect.
Done. Go home.
---
Cogito Ergo Soy
|
|
10/9/2008, 7:47 pm
|
Send Email to Lug Nut
Send PM to Lug Nut
|
itjstagame
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 11-2006
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 60
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: AMEC Economy Run II and Go-Kart Challenge
Yes, I know, that's what I was suggesting. Roll down tests to calculate the drag and crr. I haven't actually performed them yet myself, I'm waiting for a part and coded the procedure into the laptop and it'll calculate it for me. It's really cool.
As for 2.5 hours, I think if you look at the chart we had the fastest time at exactly 2:30. But then we almost half the next lower MPG :-). Darn rotaries.
Mike as for wind tunnel, you can do tuft tests, not as good but can really help as a guide. Here's a good example of a tuft test: http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=8680
As for more precise wind tunneling, there was one other guy on gassavers that ran vacuum lines to various places on his car, like all the corners, bottom of the windshield, under the car, rear bumper, etc and he ran these all to barometric vacuum gauges on his dash. At any moment he knew exactly how much vacuum (or drag/unattached flow) he had and where and it really made it easy for him to find a good draft behind a semi. Very interesting I thought.
Mark that's why I got the CRX, it has a little bit of rust starting on the lip of the rear wheel wells and two small holes on the inner front fenders. But the underside is immaculate and all plastic is there (though the front fender have 2-3 good sized spiderwebbing cracks from the bolt holes, probably due to over torquing previously). Yeah, nose, metal bumper bar, bumper cover, all that junk is in my basement. Everything else is in the hatch/back seat area. He was planning to pull the engine so just hacked and cut and removed as he saw fit. The wiper motor is hanging from that bunch of wires and the wiper mechanicals are in the car. It has everything, came with a new gasket set (I think it's FelPro, the one with the extra metal between cyl 2 and 3) and new timing belt and head bolts and the exhaust valves were already repaired. It's really in great condition just requires lot of wrenching time and 'puzzling' everything in to place which I just haven't been able to give it lately. But while I like talking about it don't expect me to sell it anytime soon. I really love the first gen's style and aero and CVCC engine so it'll be there until my fiance forces me to move it (and I'm just gonna keep ignoring her).
I really like the CVCC, I'd like a way to lean the main charge on the fly, below a certain amount it shouldn't self detonate any more I wouldn't think, but should burn when the precombustion chamber does. Just with less fuel less power. Power on demand and only using the power needed and gas needed for that power are the keys. I was also thinking it'd be fun to use an old Mercedes carb or something and run the main charge as diesel. I'm sure it'd ignite well with a burning precombustion chamber (lit with gasoline).
Last edited by itjstagame, 10/10/2008, 8:03 am
|
|
10/10/2008, 7:58 am
|
Send Email to itjstagame
Send PM to itjstagame
|
itjstagame
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 11-2006
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 60
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: AMEC Economy Run II and Go-Kart Challenge
Sorry it took me so long, but here are my pics. Just keep clicking on them and you'll eventually get to the super full-size original.
I realize the page isn't too elegant looking but I threw it together quickly. If anyone else wants their originals or any other pics hosted in a similar way let me know I've got like 2TB of hosting space: http://www.christopherjwerner.com/pics/AMEC-Fall-Econ-Run/
|
|
10/14/2008, 9:51 am
|
Send Email to itjstagame
Send PM to itjstagame
|
Mike Kamm
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 07-2004
Location: Averill Park, NY
Posts: 5585
Karma: 18 (+19/-1)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: AMEC Economy Run II and Go-Kart Challenge
Nice pics Chris. Thanks for uploading them and sharing!
I am adding them to Bill's pics and will burn them to a cd for the archives.
I really like Bill's Metropolitan! 
|
|
10/14/2008, 7:16 pm
|
Send Email to Mike Kamm
Send PM to Mike Kamm
|
Mike Kamm
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 07-2004
Location: Averill Park, NY
Posts: 5585
Karma: 18 (+19/-1)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: AMEC Economy Run II and Go-Kart Challenge
Speaking of economy, I just love the old Saab advertisement jingle on the New Salem Saab website right now. Very nostalgic.
Where were all of the cute little Swedish economy cars at our events? Bruce Turk sent his entire club a note about our event but unfortunately not a single vintage Saab showed interest.
|
|
10/17/2008, 8:14 am
|
Send Email to Mike Kamm
Send PM to Mike Kamm
|
itjstagame
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 11-2006
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 60
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: AMEC Economy Run II and Go-Kart Challenge
It's be cool to see one of those 2 strokes and see how it does.
|
|
10/19/2008, 7:06 pm
|
Send Email to itjstagame
Send PM to itjstagame
|
Add a reply
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40
41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59
|
You are not logged in (login)
Board's time is: 12/1/2009, 12:57 am
|
|
|
