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tasdrouille
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Re: AMEC Economy Run thread
Mike, please make sure to let us know when run III will take place as soon as possible. I'd really like to make it this time.
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5/5/2009, 7:28 pm
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Mark Long
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Re: AMEC Economy Run thread
Hello Mike,
I believe I have a solution for the "filling the gas tank" issue.
In my old career, I worked at a place that made computer chips. We needed sensors to accurately measure when a tank was full in a explosive environment. Anything electrical was no good due to possible sparks. We used a single pipe going into the liquid, and had very low pressure, low flow regulator putting air into the pipe. There was a tee in the pipe which hooked to a pressure sensor. When the liquid covered the end of the pipe the pressure went up. We could fill a tank within an 1/2 inch. The liquid was Xylene, which has the same properties as gasoline.
I looked online and cannot find the sensors we used.
I think I can make my own by taking a 3/8 hose, putting some sort of stop on it so it allows 12" of hose to go into the car's spout. On the other end I would hook up a portable air tank with a low pressure low flow regulator.
Somewhere in the middle I would splice a T and put in a low pressure pressure gauge.
When filling the tank you would stop when the pressure on the gauge goes up.
There is a junk place in Kingston that sells this stuff surplus. I will stop by there on Saturday.
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Mark Long
34 E
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5/5/2009, 8:48 pm
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Mike Kamm
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Re: AMEC Economy Run thread
quote:
tasdrouille wrote:
Mike, please make sure to let us know when run III will take place as soon as possible. I'd really like to make it this time.
Will do tasdrouille [can we have a first name please  ]. I am so glad that you are interested in coming again. I know you couldn't make it last year but it would be great to have you come out all the way [225 miles] from Canada!
Mike
P.S. Welcome to our message board!
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5/5/2009, 9:04 pm
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Mike Kamm
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Re: AMEC Economy Run thread
quote:
Mark Long wrote:
Hello Mike,
I believe I have a solution for the "filling the gas tank" issue.
Mark, this is amazing news. There isn't a gas mileage forum anywhere that has come up with a solution to this problem. It sounds like you're on to something! 
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5/5/2009, 9:06 pm
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Dave 48
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Re: AMEC Economy Run thread
Thats a great idea Mark, you are a very smart, quiet guy and seem to be able to get all kinds of neat stuff done for the club we are lucky to have you!
Dave B
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5/6/2009, 7:34 am
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tasdrouille
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Re: AMEC Economy Run thread
Oh yes, of course, first name's Martin.
Mark, that looks like a simple and elegant solution.
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5/6/2009, 6:57 pm
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itjstagame
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Re: AMEC Economy Run thread
Mark would that have to be calibrated differently for every car or would you just have a neck or hilt to have a repeatable depth into the tank?
What do you do if someone arrives with an already super/over filled tank?
The idea is a lot better than the filler neck though, a lot of new tanks, definately Priuses, have a bladder system to expand due to heat/fuel expansion and filling to the brim can be damaging.
Mike, another thought to help with this or any other idea, do you know if the guys at Fonda Fairway could maybe slow the metering or pressure out of the pump? The same way when you hit $50 or the prepaid amount (well faster than that), but somehow to prevent the hard to meter overflow?
Mark, that place is Kingston is awesome, C&C Salvage? I forget the exact name, I haven't been there in years, I used to peruse it for old compter parts when growing up but they certainly had really cheap copper, lead piping and ducting.
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5/7/2009, 12:27 pm
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itjstagame
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Re: AMEC Economy Run thread
Lugnut, what kind of car do you drive and any mods? Was just curious seems you're throwing down great numbers. I hate I can't seem to get much past 50 in my Festiva but I don't really drive super slow either.
If you get a chance can you desribe a little of when and how they fueled cars and checked fuel usage, etc. I'm really suprised they'd get some results they'd ignore, seemed like a higher class event than that. Did they do something like Mike did to show if tampering happened, etc?
Mike, as for overfill, I know definately the Prius, I haven't had issues in my ES300 that I'm aware of, I haven't gone to the filler neck though, usually do 3 clicks or until the click is almost instant.
Does anyone know what the clicking is based on? I thought it was based on fuel touching the lip of the nozzle or maybe pressure too (with little air left it presurrizes quickly and shuts off), but if either of these were it then I don't know why it sometimes keeps filling and squirts out.
Would either of the hyrdorstatic devices work? As long as we had a certain length that was sufficient for every filler tube.
http://www.sensorsmag.com/sensors/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=360729
We could either fill to this tube or if already higher, get a reading of pressure at that fuel height. Afterwords fill to the same pressure reading for the same vehicle and measure fuel it took. We could even put a thermometer and measure gasoline temp and take temp into account for measurements.
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5/7/2009, 12:59 pm
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Mike Kamm
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Re: AMEC Economy Run thread
Wow Chris,
Too many questions/thoughts at once. My head almost exploded. 
Jonathan [Lug Nut's] car is a TDI VW. He's got a couple of them so I don't know which he used last weekend. He usually gets about 70 mpg, so the 100+ number was not accurate - hence it was dismissed. You might remember his Passat wagon - it won our event last October @ 71 mpg.
I am aware about the Prius' fuel tank bladders. That's why we didn't fill Hobbit's tank to the rim like everyone else's at Economy Run II. Incidently, Toyota has done away with the bladders for the new Prius'.
Regarding how the people at the Green Grand Prix fueled cars and checked fuel usage, they used the "stop at first click off" method which as mentioned as few posts ago, isn't accurate enough for short contests like this.
Of particular interest were the four cars from Ecomodder that posted big numbers. There's a nice blog article about them HERE. I was supposed to be the fifth car in this group but did not go. I wish I had now, as these guys are my kind of people. It would have been great to meet them and see their cars.
This is one of those Ecomodder.com cars. It's a Canadian market Pontiac Firefly. These were sold here as Geo Metros. I'm not sure how accurate last weekend's GGP measuring was, but Darin's heavily ecomodded Firefly recorded got the best fuel economy of any vehicle at the Green Grand Prix at 99.7 mpg!!!
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5/7/2009, 8:40 pm
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Mark Long
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Re: AMEC Economy Run thread
quote:
itjstagame wrote:
Mark would that have to be calibrated differently for every car or would you just have a neck or hilt to have a repeatable depth into the tank?
What do you do if someone arrives with an already super/over filled tank?
I would siphon it onto my 5 gallon gas can 
Seriously I would have a siphon and a couple of 5 gallon cans.
quote:
Mark, that place is Kingston is awesome, C&C Salvage? I forget the exact name, I haven't been there in years, I used to peruse it for old compter parts when growing up but they certainly had really cheap copper, lead piping and ducting.
I love going there. Kinda like the mythbuster's shop except more cluttered.
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Mark Long
34 E
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5/8/2009, 4:07 pm
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