AUSTRALIAN X-TRAIL FORUM :: Engine Mechanical :: Very rough idle ~ Runboard
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Revhead Kev
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
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Re: Very rough idle


How does it idle when cold Dave ?
suppose it is not easy to tell in Brisvegas this time of year emoticon

When cold, ECM sets minimum idle speed until warm then uses Accelerator released position when warm. I would expect a faulty pedal signal would idle good if cold and as warms up would turn to rough.

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Kev X450(c)
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5/Sep/2009, 4:35 pm Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Robbo0001
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
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Re: Very rough idle


My understanding of the Crank failure was that it was more noticeable at lower speed...specifically idle. This incorrect? emoticon

Good point on the TPS Kev.
First 5 minutes or so is ok (slow suburban driving) once up to half temp (50 degrees C by scanguage, runs at a consistent 96 degrees C at optimum)it all goes to sh@t..

Will do a bit of reading on diagnosing the TPS system tonight and have a look tomorrow. Installing the O2 sensor at work on Monday hopefully.
Thanks for all the suggestions...keep em coming emoticon
cheers

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Dave
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5/Sep/2009, 6:50 pm Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Robbo0001
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
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Re: Very rough idle


Kev, I can reset the TPS and idle no worries. The scanguage also lets me read TPS values from 1 to max 78 (foot through firewall) so doesnt appear to be any irregularities there.

The Bosch website PDF file recommends the 02 sensor in the X-Trail be changed at 150 thousand kms...we are at 150600, so no loss.

The Heat shields are off the exhaust manifold and Cat and all bolts soaking in WD40 overnight. Got my hands on a "crows-foot" 22mm spanner, so hopefully the sensor comes out ok and doesnt bloody snap!
Will get it done tomorrow and do a reset and see what happens.
If it fails (and new ignition coil and MAF makes nil difference) its off to Nissan for a complete wipe-clean of the ECU and a reprogramme.
Time will tell emoticon
Cheers

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Dave
02/T30 TI (C)
7/Sep/2009, 10:17 pm Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski

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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
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Re: Very rough idle


The O2 sensor won't snap when removed, but you have to be very careful not to crack the boss of the O2 sensor as it known to crack and cause leaks.

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Robbo0001
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
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Re: Very rough idle


Yeah,I have had a nice long look at the crappy weld job that was done around the sensor housing, obviously when the recall occured.
I have a Mig ready to go, if I need to do any "running repairs".....if it goes I will take out the whole manifold and Cat, and pour so much weld on it it will never snap again.
If it comes to that...hope it doesnt emoticon

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Dave
02/T30 TI (C)
7/Sep/2009, 10:30 pm Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Robbo0001
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
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Re: Very rough idle


No change with the O2 sensor..was a sympton not cause..looking again like a TPS, MAF, accelerator pedal sensor or another sensor failure or possible bad earth.
The "miss" has decreased quite considerably after numerous idle and accelerator resets. And pulling everything apart and putting it back together again (vacuum hoses, earth points, fuses, relays cleaning sensors etc etc)
Gunna be another intake pull down and clean on the cards this weekend. Then coil and MAF swap (when it shows up)...then possibly off to Nissan for a scan.

No cracked 02 boss, and a shiny new 02 installed...so something achieved anyway.
Would be tearing my hair out if I had any....
 emoticon

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Dave
02/T30 TI (C)
8/Sep/2009, 10:24 pm Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Revhead Kev
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Date Registered: 10-2006
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Re: Very rough idle


quote:

Robbo0001 wrote:
The "miss" has decreased quite considerably after numerous idle and accelerator resets...



Can you give us some idea on how much "quite considerably" is Dave ?
Like, only on acceleration now or only idling after long run or only idling, etc

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Kev X450(c)
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8/Sep/2009, 11:23 pm Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Robbo0001
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
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Re: Very rough idle


From nearly stalling, revs going from 750-370 at idle in P/N/D/R, vehicle shuddering when stationary to only missing every now and then . It used to get a rhythm going and nearly stall, now its no where near as bad.

It is still noticeable however, (still gives the occasional lurch when stationary)and can be felt when accelerating as a miss low in the rpm range (hard or soft start).

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Dave
02/T30 TI (C)
9/Sep/2009, 6:56 am Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Robbo0001
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
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Re: Very rough idle


Well I think I have it sorted....only a theory but it appears to be working

The car ran better with the exhaust heat shields and bash plate off which was strange.
I had noticed when I removed the bash plate that it was rubbing on the heat shield below the engine, enough to leave a nice shiny patch of scratches.
After putting in a new MAF and running a new coil over each cylinder with little change, I bought some thick rubber chair feet (circular, about 20mm deep with a hole for the mounting bolts...Bunnings 8 bucks for 2 packs) and superglued these over the holes in the bash, then reinstalled the plate.
Under the car there is now a 10mm clearance from the exhaust, and no rubbing or apparent vibration. The bash is still solid, with 7 rubber mounts.

The "miss" has pretty much gone, and I will get the Boss to run a new tank over the week to see what happens.

I can only guess that the knock sensor was picking up some of the exhaust rattle and interpretting it as pinging/knocking and screwing with the idle fuel settings. More load whilst stopped, aircon on, engine in Drive and the exhaust vibrating away on the bashpate. Not as noisy when moving, so no noticeable "miss".
Sounds feasible to me...only a theory but it appears to be working for now.
Fingers crossed

 emoticon
Cheers

Edit...but it could still be fuel, earthing or any other intermittent fault. Not saying I know 100 percent...but its worked so far emoticon

Last edited by Robbo0001, 14/Sep/2009, 7:02 am


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Dave
02/T30 TI (C)
14/Sep/2009, 6:59 am Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski

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Date Registered: 02-2004
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TOTAL POSTS: 16445
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Re: Very rough idle


quote:

Robbo0001 wrote:
I can only guess that the knock sensor was picking up some of the exhaust rattle and interpretting it as pinging/knocking and screwing with the idle fuel settings.



I highly doubt that Dave. The knock sensor would pick-up internal engine pinging, not external vibrations. It's not that intelligent emoticon

The question I forgot to ask you previously is if you damaged any part of the exhaust previously in an off-road action? Meaning, have you hit any part of the exhaust on a rock or something to cause a slight bent anywhere in it?

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