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brad6
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Re: J-Drama: 篤姫 (Atsu-hime)
It has just occurred to me that all the time we have been watching ths drama there was a Civil War going on in US. I think we have reached 1868 in Japan now and the Civil War was over in 1865 I think. There would have been a time of rehabilitation and re construction in US but did US venture back into Japan again right away?
Sorry... but I did not study this period of US history in school. We were still involved in learning about the Boer War and the Victorian Age. US history was not even in our text books !! Colonial Wars were not emphasised as being very drastic when they occurred. I wonder what would have happened in modern history if there had been a powerful general who might have 'saved the day' for George III at the time.
Peg
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12/21/2008, 3:45 pm
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Hiroshi66
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Re: J-Drama: 篤姫 (Atsu-hime)
Peg, it is indeed really interesting to think that the American Civil War was going on during the same time period we've been seeing in Atsuhime. Even though Japan had initially been requested by America to open trade in 1853, I think that American presence and influence in Japan dwindled down during the American Civil War as well as during the Reconstruction period. If I remember correctly, it wasn't until the end of the Reconstruction Period (the late 1870s and 1880s) that many American advisers and visitors once again began to venture into Japan.
Beginning in the 1860s, it seems like a lot of people from Britain and France also began coming to Japan. I think there was even a scene a few episodes ago in Atsuhime where Naogoro and other samurai from Satsuma purchased weapons from the British. I also remember reading somewhere that in the early 1860s, the Tokugawa shogunate even hired French military advisers to modernize their army and navy. I think that this period of Japanese history is so interesting because of all the different foreign influences Japan received.
Wow, it's so interesting to hear about how the colonial wars were not viewed as being very drastic. That's true, imagine how different world history would have been if King George III won against the American colonists during the Revolutionary War!
Last edited by Hiroshi66, 12/21/2008, 5:00 pm
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12/21/2008, 4:59 pm
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Hiroshi66
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Re: J-Drama: 篤姫 (Atsu-hime)
#46 - Rescuing Yoshinobu
 
From what we saw in last night's episode, it really looks like Satsuma has driven Yoshinobu into a corner. Now that war between Satsuma-Choshu and the Tokugawa has started, the "strategy" formed by the Saigo-Okubo-Iwakura "triumvirate" makes a lot more sense. In essence, they provoked Shogun Yoshinobu to go to war with them by burning parts of Edo (as we saw a couple of episodes ago). Now that war has started, Satsuma pulls out their "secret weapon", the Imperial standard. Officially now, Shogun Yoshinobu and the Tokugawa shogunate are declared to be enemies of the Imperial court. Saigo and Okubo seem very intent on going to war and crushing the Tokugawa once and for all. I don't think the late Nariakira would have ever wanted them to go that far...
And Shogun Yoshinobu has returned to the Ooku! Yoshinobu still hasn't changed from the early episodes -- he still seems to be a very proud individual. It was interesting to see him return to Edo, though. After losing only one battle and being declared an Imperial enemy, he fled from Osaka to Edo. I think what angered everyone (especially Lady Tenshoin and Katsu) was that Yoshinobu deserted his troops in Osaka and escaped silently to Edo Castle without any plan or strategy. No wonder the Tokugawa lost all their allies -- nobody wanted to fight alongside an army without a general.
Lady Honjuin... she sure does hate Yoshinobu, doesn't she! When she was begging Tenshoin to kill Yoshinobu and offer his head to the Imperial court, it reminded me of the earlier episodes where Honjuin would go off on similar tangents about how much she disliked Yoshinobu.
We again see how well Tenshoin can handle difficult situations. Even when everyone in the Ooku was dreading Yoshinobu's shameful return, Tenshoin still put aside these thoughts and still met with Yoshinobu. Rather than killing himself and wasting his life, Tenshoin convinced Yoshinobu to retire and isolate himself. If Tenshoin had refused to meet with Yoshinobu, I have a feeling that he would have taken matters into his own hands and either attacked the Satsuma forces or ended his own life.
Back in Satsuma...
Poor Naogoro. As soon as war starts, he finds himself unable to move because his leg injury. It is interesting to see how against war Naogoro is, while his old friends Saigo and Okubo are the ones promoting a full-out assault on Edo. Now, though, he's intent on making his way to Kyoto again to promote his and Ryoma's ideals of forming a new country peacefully. And Ochika is left alone at home again. She truly is such a kind and patient woman -- even though she is worried about his life in Kyoto now that war has started, she still sends him off.
Iwakura (the man who is plotting with Saigo and Okubo that has a very interesting accent and intonation) does seem like a sneaky and almost evil man. I noticed in last night's episode that he put Prince Arisugawa and Saigo in charge of the Imperial army that would attack Edo Castle and the Ooku. Arisugawa was the man who Kazunomiya was engaged to before she left for Edo to marry Iemochi. Iwakura even mentioned Tenshoin's name when he gave Saigo the assignment, so he does know that both Tenshoin and Kazunomiya are people who are very familiar to Saigo and Arisugawa.
Tenshoin did the right thing leaving Katsu in charge of the Tokugawa family now that Yoshinobu is in isolation. Katsu seems to know what he is doing, and he has a close relationship with the Ooku as well. What will Katsu's "strategy" be? It is an interesting prospect -- he suggested that he will neither attack nor defend, but refused to divulge any other informaiton. I wonder how everything will turn out -- especially since both Tenshoin and Kazunomiya have expressed their intent to write petitions on sparing Yoshinobu's life.
We're now in early 1868. #47 airs next Saturday, January 3rd, 2009!
Last edited by Hiroshi66, 12/28/2008, 8:43 am
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12/28/2008, 8:42 am
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nchristi
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Re: J-Drama: 篤姫 (Atsu-hime)
class blockquote Hiroshi66 wrote:
Back in Satsuma... It is interesting to see how against war Naogoro is, while his old friends Saigo and Okubo are the ones promoting a full-out assault on Edo. Now, though, he's intent on making his way to Kyoto again to promote his and Ryoma's ideals of forming a new country peacefully.In reading your comments here, Hiroshi, it snapped into focus the sharp contrast between the long-standing glorified warrior mentality and that of seeking change through compromise and agreement. I was thinking how winning in battle, vanquishing the enemy, dying gloriously on the battlefield in honor—this was the highest, most heroic calling to which a man could attain in those days—in those centuries. To change the mentality, moving away from the Ideal of Battle into an age of Administration is a long, painful process, leaving many casualties strewn along the path.
Unfortunately, however altrustic some of the characters may be, there are always plenty of talented schemers whose goal in life is to grab and hold Power, regardless of who or how many are slaughtered in the process. Saigo strikes me as a man fighting for what he ignorantly believes is "right" and best for the nation. Okuba is a bitter man who wants to give payback for his great humiliation early on. Iwakura is the epitome of a smart, patient man whose god is Power and Control. He's as close to being the absolute ruler of Japan as his birth will allow—the power behind the throne. He also seems to be a man who is enjoying throwing others into circumstances requiring agonizing decisions from them. It's an amusing, enjoyable game to him as the Chess Master.
Then there is Naogoro following the ideals of Nariakira, men who genuinely care for the future of their people in general, seeking what is better in the long run.
I wonder what's happening to Naogoro's mistress and son? (Did I miss something? Or are they just shelved in our drama?
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12/28/2008, 10:34 am
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Hiroshi66
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Re: J-Drama: 篤姫 (Atsu-hime)
Nchristi, I think the last we heard of Naogoro's mistress and son was a few episodes back and that they were still residing in his Kyoto residence. Ever since Naogoro returned to Satsuma from Kyoto, the writers haven't been giving Okoto or Naogoro's son very much attention. I wonder if we'll see more of them now that Naogoro mentioned his intention to return to Kyoto?
Iwakura the Chess Master -- that's a great name for him. It fits his role and personality perfectly. When he gave Saigo his new assignment of helping lead the Imperial Army to attack Edo, Iwakura seemed elated at the fact that Saigo may "meet" Tenshoin, his childhood friend, there. He must have had the same reasoning when he gave Prince Arisugawa that same assignment. He knew very well that Arisugawa is Kazunomiya's ex-fiancee. It's almost as if he knows how difficult these decisions are for Saigo and Arisugawa (and even Okubo, to an extent) and wants to test their loyalty and determination.
Yeah, Naogoro really does seem to be the only one of our core Satsuma group following Nariakira's ideals of peace and harmony for all. It's too bad that his other friends from Satsuma don't feel the same, all for various reasons.
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12/28/2008, 12:54 pm
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Hiroshi66
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Re: J-Drama: 篤姫 (Atsu-hime)
#47 - A Messenger From the Ooku
 
Despite last night's episode having a rather sad plot, I must say that it was one of my most favorite episodes so far in this taiga drama. Maybe it was because we saw Ikushima return after such a long absence. Ikushima is one of my favorite characters, and I also really enjoy the performance by Matsuzaka Keiko. She has really mastered Ikushima's character, and I'm glad we were able to see her again. I think Ikushima left Tenshoin's service in late 1858, so now that we're in 1868, it's really a ten-year reunion between the two. Great episode.
Even though Yoshinobu has showed deference to the Court and the Satsuma/Choshu armies by entering a temple and isolating himself, it looks like the Saigo/Okubo/Iwakura triumvirate are still preparing for the imminent attack on Edo Castle. Even when Naogoro returned to Kyoto to try to speak to Saigo, he was turned away when Saigo refused to meet with him. I guess Saigo doesn't want to meet with anybody who will even try to sway his emotions about attacking Edo and causing widespread damage to the city itself as well as the Tokugawa family.
Since Tenshoin's original idea of writing a petition to the Court didn't work, it looks like Naogoro was the one who came up with writing a letter to Saigo directly, and having Ikushima deliver it. Tenshoin and Ikushima have known Saigo for many years, so I can see why Naogoro was hoping that Saigo would change his mind after reading a kind appeal from Tenshoin which was delivered by Ikushima, a woman who was once very close to the late Nariakira.
Saigo really has an interesting rationale. While he was such a kind, easy going, and approachable individual before the death of Nariakira, I think Saigo really changed after his lord's passing. As we've seen now, and as even Okubo mentioned, Saigo has a very ruthless side to him. Despite Tenshoin and Ikushima's kind appeal, Saigo still refuses to make peace and will push on to attack Edo. I was shocked when he gave Ikushima a message to give to Tenshoin -- "Stay well"! How ironic coming from the words of a man who, in the next scene, made a decision to attack Edo Castle in four days: March 15th, 1868.
Saigo does seem emotionally caught between a rock and a hard place, though. On one side, he feels caught between the mindsets of people like Nariakira, Naogoro, and Tenshoin, who have always maintained that peace is the better alternative to war. On the other hand, the entire Imperial Army is under his command, and he is undoubtedly seen as a hero by many individuals. As we saw in the last scene with Saigo crying while re-reading Tenshoin's letter, I think he is emotionally divided and seems to be having a much more difficult time making this decision than he leads us to believe.
Poor Honjuin. I guess she is drinking her sorrows away. Honjuin has a very interesting character. I read somewhere that before she became a concubine of the 12th shogun Ieyoshi (Iesada's father), she used to be a maid in the Ooku from a very young age. She must have grown up and spent most of her very life living in the Ooku. No wonder she is feeling so lost and depressed. Even Utahashi, her sidekick, can't control the poor woman's drinking.
It was also nice to see how loyal Tenshoin and Kazunomiya's attendants were to take the letters all the way from Edo to dangerous Kyoto. Kazu's attendant and Karahashi did so while feeling a sense of loyalty and duty. These attendants would really risk their lives for the women they served. Speaking of Kazunomiya -- how ironic that one of the commanders of the Imperial Army is Prince Arisugawa, her ex-fiancee. I guess that was due to the actions of our Chessmaster -- Iwakura. He was the one who arranged for Arisugawa and Saigo to be the leaders of the attack on Edo.
I wonder what Katsu will discuss with Tenshoin. After meeting with Ikushima, I think Tenshoin feels a lot more hopeful. I wonder how Katsu's strategy of winning war without a battle will progress.
We're now in March of 1868, and Episode #48 will air next Saturday, 1/10/09!
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1/4/2009, 8:32 am
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brad6
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Re: J-Drama: 篤姫 (Atsu-hime)
I was wondering last night how closely the drama is staying with the actual history now. Those scenes between the women in the Ooku had to be imagined by the writers I think. There seems to be a strong conspiracy in the court to maintain the Imperial plans and fend off any approach from the Satsuma people. I wonder why they would not even receive any letters or see emissaries. I was surprised that Saigo would be so rude with Naogoro. After all he had been his lord earlier. I guess power corrupts and he now has absolute power over the Imperial army.
I really would like to find a site where the actual history is told in English.
It is a prickly feeling to think that my grandfather was alive during the latter part of this time.
Talk about six degees....
Peg
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1/4/2009, 11:12 am
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nchristi
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Re: J-Drama: 篤姫 (Atsu-hime)
Quite an episode last night! Hiroshi, I agree completely on Matsuzaka Keiko as Ikushima. Her acting is superb in the scene where she delivers the letter to Saigo. What a combination of rage and frustration, struggling to keep her emotions controlled while she carefully speaks civil, incisive words to him. Don't you know she would have liked to slap some sense into that stubborn, stubborn man who is practically wet behind the ears compared to her years and experience?
Question: Could someone explain the clothing with the tassels? Is it indicating a widow (or other woman) who has taken the tonsure? Why is Ikushima appearing before Tonshoin in that dress? Have we seen Tonshoin before with double tassels on each side? Was Ikushima appearing in clothing that mirrors Tenshoin's, almost as though she was once again her senior attendant?
Saigo. All I could think of last night was back in these characters' youth, when Atsu would risk punishment sneaking over to give fish and other expensive food to Saigo's starving family (wasn't his father in exile or confinement at that time?). Then, Saigo's complete devotion to her in her marriage preps, etc.
Also cutting in and out in my mind was Saigo in the movie, When the Last Sword is Drawn, covering the last portion of his life. He didn't seem exactly happy in his waning days. Guess we can understand why after watching last night's episode and knowing what is coming up.
On the man Saigo as presented in this taiga, I don't quite know what to make of him. Before reading your observations, Hiroshi, my thoughts on him from last night were that he is a "little" man seeking to make his place in history. I might be way off the mark, but that's how it all came across to me last night. No matter how sensible arguments are against his firmly fixed position, he will not change. Is he really being faithful to Nariakiri? (It seems Naogoro's position is closer to Nariakiri's.)
In looking at Saigo's life, he was a physically strong warrior type in his youth. But his family was out of favor and he had no accomplishment to make him feel successful or to have status of any value. He came closest to feeling elevated when he was asked to serve Nariakiri and Atsu, being assigned important duties and accomplishing them well. Then Nariakiri was gone and Saigo was nowhere. Worse, he had to disappear to escape the new powers that be. Now, he is again close—even closer—to the highest power with the Chessmaster Iwakura. I saw Saigo, not as sincerely pursuing a noble cause, but stubbornly seeking to make a place for himself in history regardless of the cost.
One fact about the human mind is that it cannot long abide a true conflict between logic and emotion. Humans have to choose one side or the other, justifying their choice, or they will have a mental breakdown. Thus, Saigo logically has chosen a certain path to destroy Edo and squelched all emotion that will weaken that resolve, convincing himself (justifying) that his logical choice is "right." Emotionally, he cannot allow his past feelings to arise. Consequently, he refuses to see Naogoro to avoid the "put to bed" conflict from arising again within him. He makes a big mistake in seeing Ikushima, then reading Lady Tenshoin's long letter appealing to his emotions and common sense. We see the result. Saigo is torn between his cold logic and emotion, struggling mightily with tears and anguish, clutching Tenshoin's letter to his heart. He steels himself, though, and now forever (probably) puts behind him any emotion of mercy, loyalty and love for what was a large part of his early life. He will pay a huge, unanticipated price for this choice for the rest of his life if Tenshoin is massacred in his destruction of Edo. (I don't know what happened in history and will have to wait until next week!)
As for the Ooku, can you imagine how panic-stricken they must be? They have lived sheltered lives, rather helpless, actually. All their protection is from the men. When their men are wiped out, the women can be raped, pillaged and plundered—if they don't kill themselves first. Since the women have mostly been sequestered the greater part of their lives, the anticipation of what is coming must be heart-stopping.
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1/4/2009, 11:44 am
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Hiroshi66
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Re: J-Drama: 篤姫 (Atsu-hime)
Nchristi, I've also been very interested in the clothing with the tassels that is worn by quite a few of our characters. At first, I thought that the tassels were worn only by widows who had taken the tonsure. Before Shogun Iesada passed away, Atsu would wear vibrant kimonos with bright colors. After she became a widow and took the tonsure, Tenshoin began wearing more subdued colors, along with the tassels (on occasion, I've seen her wear one on each side, and sometimes she wears two.) I think that's also when she changed her hairstyle to almost look like a "ponytail". Honjuin is also often seen wearing the same type of subdued colors and tassels.
A couple of days ago, I asked a Japanese friend of mine about the tassels. He mentioned that they were worn by high-ranking women of the samurai class when they became widows. He also said that they could be worn by women who retired or were living in seclusion. Ikushima, who used to wear lavish kimonos when she used to serve Atsu as her senior attendant, has maybe switched to wearing this clothing with the tassels since she has now retired from Atsu's service and is living a quiet life in Kyoto. Now that Tenshoin and Ikushima have been reunited, I think it's pretty interesting to see that they once again wear the same type of clothing -- both of them have switched from kimonos to wearing these subdued and tasseled types of clothes.
Oddly enough, the only person who took the tonsure and hasn't been seen wearing the clothing with the tassels is Princess Kazu. Though she wears the "ponytail" hairdo, Kazu still wears the same type of kimonos she used to wear even before her husband passed away. I think that may have something to do with her rank -- since Kazu was a member of the imperial family, she may have been allowed to retain the rather lavish clothing.
I agree, I think Saigo has been swaying from Nariakira's original ideas. I feel that if Nariakira was still alive, he would have tried to push for a peaceful resolution like Naogoro is currently arguing for. Like Peg mentioned, it is so sad to see that the Imperial Court (most likely Chessmaster Iwakura) is preventing anyone from Satsuma to even meet with Saigo. That's true -- Saigo did make a mistake in meeting with Ikushima. Now, he's having a difficult time trying to choose between logic -- getting rid of the Tokugawa family and massacring all those who live in the Edo Castle Ooku -- and emotion, which is saving someone who played a major role in his earlier days.
Now that Ikushima returned, I've been wondering what happened to some of the other characters from the earlier episodes. The one person who came to mind was Oshiga, Iesada's former concubine. I read on the Japanese Wikipedia page that after Iesada's death, she took the tonsure and was renamed Houkenin. I thought it was interesting to read that she left the Ooku to live in a Buddhist temple. It is unknown when she passed away, but it is believed she passed away sometime in early 1868. She must have passed away around the same time period we're currently seeing in this drama.
I'm also glad Matsuzaka Keiko is back! She's such a wonderful actress. 
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1/4/2009, 1:36 pm
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