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Water supply in the country side

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datagecko
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Water supply in the country side

Ok, this is to satisfy my curiosity. As you may know, Australia is a very dry place, especially at the moment with the worst drought in 100 years (though we are getting a little rain now so maybe there is hope). Water (or the lack of it) will be one of the defining problems for this country in the future. So for us the idea of a big (30,000 litre plus) rain water tank to collect drinking water is obvious, and in fact absolutely essential in the country side where most people have between 2 to 4 big tanks. My wife though could not initially believe this, and said that no-one uses rain water tanks in Japan, and that no-one would think of drinking water from a river even. (Well's seem to be acceptable though.) So when I said that I'd like to have a water tank if we ever had a property in Japan she said she doesn't think we'd find one, they are just not used. I know it rains plenty, so you don't have to store water for a long time, but I'm still curious. Can you get rain water tanks in Japan? What do you do for water? Does everyone rely on mains supply? What are the options if your land is not connected the water service? Water supply can be expensive to connect if it doesn't exist I understand, so is there any financial advantage if you don't connect? In the city everyone takes drinking water for granted, but in the country side its one of the keystones for survival. I would have though that in a place where earthquakes could cut supply for days or weeks, backup supplies in the country side would be the norm, or are well's the answer there.

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1/4/2008, 1:57 pm

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togei
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Re: Water supply in the country side

Here in the Kansai area I have a well that is roughly 3 meters deep and almost always 3/4 full. I have only run out of water once but that was only for a couple of hours. There is a water pipe that theoretically I could hook up to but since it is about 500 meters away it would cost more than my house to do that.
The people in the area either use the water main or collected water. That is to say naturally "running" water. I use the quotation marks because it is running out the side of the mountain, kind of like a spring but coming out the side of the mountain. There is a tank on the top of a mountain but that water is only used for farming. I haven't seen it but my guess is it is in the range of 500 to 700 liters. Since most of the mountains are covered in Hinoki and Sugi the locals will tell you the winter water supply has dropped since the trees require water year round.

1/4/2008, 3:44 pm

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datagecko
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Re: Water supply in the country side

Thanks for that togei. Do you use well water for drinking water then? And its enough for any veggies you are growing as well? When you say collected water, how is it stored? I've seen some places with a small well that seems to be spring fed. The idea of a constantly running spring is appealing. Is that common? Even better would be to have a small stream running through your property to possibly exploit micro-hydro. Has anyone looked into that at all? You don't need a large volume of water if its got enough head (pressure). It seems a good option if you have the right place. Its certainly something I'd like to investigate further one day.

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1/4/2008, 8:20 pm

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togei
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Re: Water supply in the country side

Hello Gecko,
We only have the well as a source for water. We use it for everything although we don't grow vegetables. We do have a 76 tsubo yard full of plants that need water. I am not sure of the set up but I think, and I give it a 50% chance of being wrong, that basically everyone sources the water from the aforementioned side of the mountain and bring it in through a hose. I have never seen a water tank around the houses here. There are outside hoses at almost every house that are running 24 hours 7 days a week. I guess I live in an area that has plentiful water. I started a different thread on ecologically sound local knowledge and one of those "know hows" would be letting the water run at just above a drip on the coldest nights so to trigger the well pump so the lines won't freeze. I guess if you live where there are droughts that isn't very ecological. It beats using an electric coil to heat exposed lines.
You wrote about the stream running through the property. We have one of those although it is a small one. I have thought about hydro but I don't have any idea on what it would entail. If you know of any information sources please let me know. You can see pictures here http://davidmorrisonpike.com/blogpictures/ of a constantly running water source that is being used for scaring off wildlife.

1/4/2008, 8:45 pm

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Johnny LaRue
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Re: Water supply in the country side

My village has the same "running water" setup. Though we use only town water. I neglected to see if I could have hooked into it before construction of our home. I have since learned that the neighbors are always bickering about so and so letting it run 24/7 and those on the lower end not getting any pressure. So in a way I'm glad I didn't do it.

We have a good sized stream directly behind the backyard. My dream is to oneday make a microhydro system. I have made a 30watt waterwheel but it got washed away and damaged. I have another wheel that I bought from a recycle shop, some farmer's contraption, but can't find a good DC motor to fit it.

The biggest problem I think with making a good system is the price of a real turbine, and deep cycle batteries here. A 100USD battery is 600USD here. And you need a bank of several batteries. A 1000USD turbine is 2-3000USD. Pvc pipe is reasonable at least.

There are some cheap Chinese made turbines that I am researching and will post some links and more info on later.

1/4/2008, 11:27 pm

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datagecko
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Re: Water supply in the country side

Mmmmm, this is interesting. The idea of permanently running water is so rare here. A few people have springs on their properties, and running creeks are also rare. I guess the villages are tapping into these springs directly. I just had a thought though, if they put in a small tank, even just 500l, high up near the source and trickle feed that from the springs, the volume of water would then give enough pressure to solve the 'drop in pressure problem', assuming the tank is say 6+ feet above where you want your tap. If you could work everything so its going down hill you'd be set. No reliance on power at all, just gravity feed everything. Sound too optimistic?

togei, maybe you could add a post to the "ecologically sound local knowledge" thread about traditional water distribution options and see what people have to offer. :-) Thanks. I like the water driven critter scarer, but I wonder if the clonk, clonk, clonk would drive me nuts. ;-) If it dropped down onto the top of a big bamboo pipe it might sound nicer, though maybe no so effective. ??? :-)

jr and togie, glad to see others interested in mirco-hydro too. Firstly I have to say I don't know a lot, just research from various alternate energy books, but it strikes me that Japanese country side is just MADE for micro-hydro!

We have a great magazine here devoted to renewable energy, called ReNew. I get that from time to time. I might start a thread where we can combine research. jr, one of the great things about micro-hydro is I don't think you really need a battery bank if your requirements are not too high, and the water flow is reliable, the power is on 24x7. Batteries obviously are good, but complicate the process significantly and make the cost pretty steep. Also I don't think water wheels are really very efficient for power generation, and too prone to flood damage, much better to get a proper generator. Something like this one but of course thats pretty expensive, but I'm thinking for when there is no reliable power in the future. I lived in India for a year, and we often only had power for 3-4 hours a day, at random times, and boy do you miss it when its unreliable. Also, in India everyone pumped water from wells up to a small holding tank on the roof, as high up as they could get it. When the power was on, you'd fill the tank and at least have water for the next day or two.

gecko

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1/5/2008, 2:44 pm

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Johnny LaRue
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Re: Water supply in the country side

Hi Gecko,

I'd say most mountain areas in Japan have numerous springs flowing. Very few areas are really dry here, parts of Hokkaido, and around the Seto Inland Sea. Most houses in Okinawa have the roof tank thing, don't know if it's lack of water or lack or pressure. Near my house there are numerous springs. All you need to do is touch the water and feel the temperature to know if it's spring or stream.

Thanks for the links to the hydro and mag. That is a really nice unit, especially cause it includes the load dump- heating element and controller. Any idea what they cost?
I've looked at the Stream Engine and Water Baby models,

http://www.absak.com/catalog/default.php/cPath/33_89_92

A good point about a battery bank is you don't need a high watt turbine, so a homebrewed 100 watt turbine running 24/7 can keep you charged up. Expensive turbine- no batteries. Cheap turbine- expensive batteries. Hmmmmm..... Okay one last card....

http://www.windturbine.ca/sunami_models.html

These are inexpensive Chinese made direct output 100V? AC models. (No batteries if you don't want 'em.) Question is of durability. I've inquired directly to China and they're really cheap, 250USD and up. By ship to Japan add about 50USD. The problem is getting them from port to home. I heard from an aquaintance who is a freight forwarder that you can DIY. Drive to Port of Kobe and break/ship as they call it. If you hire a freight forwarder it'll cost near the price of the unit itself. Even with a forwarder's services 500USD is real cheap for a 200watt turbine.

I would love to get my lighting and maybe ceiling fans to run off-grid, it is possible.

1/5/2008, 10:39 pm

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Johnny LaRue
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Re: Water supply in the country side

I just want to clarify myself on the above post. If you have an AC producing hydropower generator you don't necessarily need to have a battery bank, you can plug directly into it. If you have a DC hydro, then you either need to have a battery bank and rectifier/inverter to convert it to AC, or run only DC appliances.

1/6/2008, 9:23 am

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datagecko
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Re: Water supply in the country side

Hi JL, I contacted Platypus Power but they are on holidays till the 15th, but will send through a price list after that. Will post details when I get 'em.

The "inexpensive Chinese" models do look inexpensive don't they. ;-) Still, interesting to experiment with I guess, but I think I'd go for a more long term solution if I had the right location, something that I was sure was going to be reliable for many many years. Yes, the model I linked to is great having the heating element. I've got a solution in mind that ties a couple of systems together with the aim of making a reliable, low maintenance solution that covers all the basic living requirements. Still working on it, but when I have more I will post the concept to the other thread.

Your post also raises another issue I'd like to discuss, that is importing stuff to Japan, be it bringing in you own personal belongings, or bringing in gear like this. Might start a separate thread for that though. :-)

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1/6/2008, 5:31 pm

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datagecko
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Re: Water supply in the country side

I have a further question about drawing water from springs and streams/rivers. Does anyone there know of any restrictions for drawing or using flowing water?

I assume that a well on your property is your business to use as you wish, but what about a stream or spring flowing through or next to your property. Are you allowed (as seems to be the case) to access that water source for: a) domesic use and b) irrigation of veggie gardens? And more importantly, how does it work? Are permits or such required?

Also, if its suitable, could you access that source for micro-hydro, which doesn't actually 'use' water, just borrows it. ;-) Would doing this upset the 'wa' with the locals/beaurocrats?

Any info on this would be appreciated.
Thanks.