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needsaname
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The Mormons: PBS Televsion


Has anyone caught this two parter (2 hours each)? I didn't much care for it as I didn't feel I learned much about their scripture but last night's second part says they have an extensive vault of like 7 Billion names of the deceased of which their members by proxy have themselves baptised. Isn't this an invasion of privacy? Invasion of one's belief system to find out someone you know was baptised and didn't want to be?


I am curious about learning more of it's founder and what they actually believe. Something about a dead angel, a native american and christ? They never really went into their teachings which is why I feel the whole four hours was uninformative.
5/2/2007, 11:09 am PM needsaname
 
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Re: The Mormons: PBS Televsion


I didn't see it, but it sounds pretty uninformative, based on the info you provided here.

Did they even mention their underwear?

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5/2/2007, 6:51 pm PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
Belligerence
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Re: The Mormons: PBS Televsion


The LDS church believes in the Angel Maroni...If you've seen an LDS church it's the big golden statue with the trumpet...

Angel Maroni told Joseph Smith about these "Seerstones" made of gold that were written in a "Native American" ( Holy ) language that only good ol' Joe could read...

Joe had his buddy transcribe the seerstones as Joe read them...The angel forbade Joe from letting anyone else see the stones...The transcriptions thusly became the LDS bible...

From my understanding and I could be off on this since it's been awhile but Mormons believe Native Americans originated from a lost tribe of Israelites that emigrated some 2.000 years ago...

Mormons were set on making Illinois "Zion" but Non-Mormons envoked a law of it being legal to kill Mormons for no reason at all other than them being Mormon...The LDS church thusly set root in Utah and made that the "True Zion"

In the process of setting up religion they continuously lied to the government on numerous occassions such as the whole polygamy thing...There was a big list of things online from an ex-LDS leader but I can't locate it as of now...

That's a Reader's Digest of the LDS church...

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5/3/2007, 1:19 am PM Belligerence
 
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Re: The Mormons: PBS Televsion


Thanks for that information, Belli. emoticon

With non-Mormons (presumably other Christian denominations?) killing Mormons for nothing more than being Mormon, I don't blame them one bit for lying to the government. It's hard to feel sorry for some of the Mormon men, though... the ones who take under-aged girls as wives (to put it nicely). The women and girls, on the other hand, I feel sorry for for more reasons than one. I mean, who in their right mind would put up with sharing their husband with multiple wives, and allow their daughters to be raped if they didn't believe they would go to hell for all eternity for refusing?

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5/3/2007, 5:13 pm PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
Bhagwan
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Re: The Mormons: PBS Televsion


I didn't see the program however I did catch an interview with the woman who did the documentary.

My wife and I lived in Salt Lake City for over a dozen years. Being a proud liberal and non religious put me in the minority that is for sure.

As far as what Belli posted....I would like to clarify a couple of things as I have come to understand the LDS belief system.

Yes...the Angel Moroni directed Smith to some "Gold Tablets" with an unknown type of writing. These tablets told of a society that populated North America before the Native Americans. There were cities and roads connecting them.
 
An interesting fact here in Michigan... there is a network of roads in the lower Peninsula that predate the Native tribes here. There is an island near Petosky that has a Stonehenge built by some unknown people. I have always wondered if these were the people that the book of Morman talks about.

Also, in the beginning of the book of Morman there is a list of people that swear to have seen the tablets and verified that they did exist. Of course this could all be a conspiracy to promote there agenda...but in my opinion about the book, is that a common man didn't just one day decide to make up some story to create a religion. In my opinion Joseph Smith was shown these tablets that had a history of a previous culture that inhabited this continent.

Where I have a difference of opinion with them is in the fact of who really showed him those plates. In the book of Morman it states that the Angel Moroni came to Smith three times in one night and repeated word for word three times the same instructions. I am just guessing here...but it sure sounds like a projection of some type... similar to holograms used in "Star Wars".... "Help me Obe Wan Kenobe" LoL

Highly advanced beings manipulating humans for their own agenda. Just as they have done for thousands of years. Remember, "Religion is the opium of the people"

Anyway... in ending this little rambling.... for the most part we got along very well in the sea of conservatives we lived amongst. In fact there once was a Bishop of a Ward in SLC that after several attempts to get us to convert and start attending Sunday services, called us "Dry Mormans" because we lived and conducted ourselves as Mormans but weren't. Boy did we have him fooled...LoL...

Most were good people and we really do miss the great friends we made while we lived there.



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5/3/2007, 10:54 pm PM Bhagwan Read Blog
 
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Re: The Mormons: PBS Televsion


I've also lived in Utah...My family being the only non-Mormon family in the neighbourhood we were ostracized for the most part...

I've also spoken to Mormons outside of Utah...One spoke of his trip to Utah to get married at Temple Square...He said "It's a whole different religion"...

One of our Mormon neighbours would also come over to our house to have a swearing storm...Drink caffinated drinks...And general hypocritical actions to the LDS belief system then go right back to her home and be Susie Homemaker once again...

I've also known Jack Mormons ( Or Dry Mormons whichever ) who were black listed from the church because they never kept up with tithings or some other nonsense...

My grandparents tried adopting through the LDS church...They told them they couldn't because they haven't paid tithings for 40 some-odd years ( Whatever the number of years it was...But they kept track of that for decades )

I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt but from what I've seen of Mormons is a huge hypocrisy...Most of the Mormon girls I went to school with were the biggest...Whores to put it nicely...I've ever met...It's one of the few religions I truly frown upon because of what I've seen of their actions...

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5/3/2007, 11:28 pm PM Belligerence
 
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Re: The Mormons: PBS Televsion


I may get myself banned from here on my first day, but I feel I have to stand up here.

First a disclaimer- I am not now, nor have I ever been Mormon- so I cannot answer your questions well, but I do know people who can, should you want them answered.

I do know Mormons, some born and raised Mormon, some who have studied many other belief systems and who have chosen in adulthood to convert to Mormon because it was what felt correct to them- 'underwear' and all.

The Mormons I know are some of the most tolerant and Christian- in the old fashioned- live like Jesus did definition of christianity that I have had the honor to have met in my life. They do not prosletize, but they do share their faith if asked with respect.

They do not believe in or practice polygamy.

Caffeine is not forbidden- that is a misunderstanding on Our part. Coffe and Tea are.

Getting married in the Temple IS different- it is forever- with a capital F.

Three are hypocrites in every religion.

As for Mormon girls being the biggest whores- I heard that about Catholic girls when I was in HS- and was a Catholic girl- emoticon wasn't necessarily true then- especially about me, but that doesn't mean it wasn't said or believed.

Bhagwan has the story closest about the Angel and the Tablets.

If you do want to know more of the truth you can PM me and I can put tyou in touch with someone who can answer your questions. Or you can come to Dharma Fish Biscuits and go into the Locke vs Jack Debate area that's out religious discussions thread.

Emm
9/18/2007, 7:54 pm PM Lady Emm
 
toxiczen
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Re: The Mormons: PBS Televsion


im lost on what you typed that could result in you being banned... emoticon

what i know about the mormons is that it has a bit of it's origins with one Charles Taze Russell, mormonism and jehovas witnesses are largley the result of a divergence of opinions from what i understand?
here is some info on Charles:

As early as 1892 Russell's views and management style were strongly criticized by certain individuals associated with his ministry. In 1893 a paper was written and circulated to Bible Students in Pittsburgh by associates Otto van Zech, Elmer Bryan, J.B. Adamson, S.G. Rogers, Paul Koetitz, and others. It expressed concern that Russell was a dictatorial leader, a shrewd businessman who appeared eager to collect funds from the selling of the "Millennial Dawn" books, cheated one of them out of financial gains, and issued thousands of Millennial Dawn books under a female pseudonym. A booklet entitled A Conspiracy Exposed and Harvest Siftings was written by Russell and issued as an extra to the April, 1894 Zion's Watch Tower magazine in order to pre-empt attempts to have their views circulated to a wider audience of Bible Students. Russell printed copies of letters he had received from these former associates in order to show that their claims were trumped up, and those involved were guided by Satan in an attempt to subvert his work as a "minister of the gospel".

In 1897 Russell's wife left him after disagreeing over the management of Zion's Watch Tower magazine. She expressed that, as his wife, she should have equal control over its administration, equal privilege in writing articles, preaching, and traveling abroad as his representative. In 1903 she filed for legal separation on the grounds of mental cruelty, related to what she considered to be forced celibacy, and frequent cold, indifferent treatment. The separation was ultimately granted in 1906, with Russell charged to pay alimony. During the trial her attorney made the claim that Russell had been inappropriately intimate with Rose Ball, a young woman the Russells had cared for as a "foster daughter" since age ten. She alleged that Ball had told her Russell claimed to be a "jellyfish floating around" to different women until someone responded to his intimacy. Russell defended himself by claiming that not only was she "poisoned" by the women's suffrage movement, but that all her claims were false. Following her attorney's claim, page 10 of the court transcript records that Mrs. Russell was asked by the Judge to clarify if she was, in fact, accusing her husband of adultery, and replied "No". The Washington Post and Chicago Mission Friend reprinted the claim that Russell was a "jellyfish", and was sued by him for libel. The jury voted in his favor, awarding him one-dollar. After appealing this decision, Russell received a cash settlement of $15,000 (the same buying power as $310,000 in 2005) as well as payment of all court costs, an agreement for an article of retraction defending his character, and an agreement that his weekly syndicated sermons be published in their newspapers.

On March 22, 1911, The Brooklyn Daily Eagle, a tabloid newspaper, began publishing articles accusing Russell of gaining profit from a strain of wheat named "Miracle Wheat" by its discoverer, K.B. Stoner of Fincastle, Virginia in 1903. Once other newspapers read this claim, many critics began to insist that Russell had deceived and defrauded many by selling this supposedly advanced strain of wheat for $60 a bushel, far above the average cost of wheat for the day. Throughout 1912 and 1913 the Eagle continued to report on this alleged fraud on Russell's part. Russell sued the Eagle for libel, but lost. Russell defended himself publicly, and in writing, by claiming that the wheat was donated to the Watch Tower Society, and although sold for $1 per pound Mr. Stoner routinely sold it for a $1.25 per pound. Russell claimed to have no financial connection to the wheat, and that any who were dissatisfied by their purchase and donation were offered a refund as much as one year following purchase. None claimed a refund.

During 1913, other matters of interest were addressed by John Jacob (J.J.) Ross, a minister from Hamilton, Ontario, Canada in his booklet entitled Some Facts about the Self-Styled "Pastor" Charles T. Russell. Russell had taken Ross to court on the charge of libel. Ross attempted to show that when Russell was asked in trial if he possessed knowledge of the Greek alphabet he first claimed he did, then retracted the claim when cross-examined and shown the alphabet. Ross also claimed that Russell blatantly lied when asked if he was an ordained minister by answering "yes". In answer to Ross's accusations, Russell stated that he never claimed knowledge of the Greek language, merely the alphabet, and that due to the Judge's objection to the line of questioning, the book was taken away before he could even see it. He believed that his ordination was "of God" according to the biblical pattern, not requiring any denominational approval, and that his annual election as "Pastor" by over 1,200 congregations worldwide constituted him as "ordained", or chosen, to be a minister of the gospel.

In recent times, Russell has been accused of having had close ties with Freemasonry. Critics have not only attempted to connect him with any of several different rites of the Free Masons, but have also attempted to show that such associations are connected with occult practices. It has been pointed out that in later editions of his Studies in the Scriptures series a winged solar disk appears on the front cover, which some have claimed is an exclusively Masonic symbol. In his writings, Russell stated that membership in Freemasonry, Knights of Pythias, Theosophy, and other similar groups are unscriptural. He also denied having direct knowledge of Masonic practices and considered membership with these groups to be "grievous evils" (1895; Zion's Watch Tower, June, 1895, pg. 143). His justification for use of the winged solar-disk originated from his understanding that Malachi 4:2, which denotes a sun with wings, is a symbol that Christ's millennial Kingdom had begun.




ultimately a mormon, jehovas witness, catholic, satanist, or buddhist, really comes down to who the individual is, and (IMHO) should not be defined or judged by the label they choose to live by.
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Last revised by toxiczen, 9/18/2007, 8:59 pm


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9/18/2007, 8:16 pm PM toxiczen
 
Lady Emm
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Re: The Mormons: PBS Televsion


"im lost on what you typed that could result in you being banned... "

I'm brand new and I walked in and disagreed with Everyone!
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"ultimately a mormon, jehovas witness, catholic, satanist, or buddhist, really comes down to who the individual is, and (IMHO) should not be defined or judged by the label they choose to live by. "

That is pretty much the way I feel about it too, but I wanted to stand up my friends whose religious beliefs seemed to be getting bashed a bit- at least the definition of Mormon seemed to be.
9/19/2007, 9:07 pm PM Lady Emm
 
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Re: The Mormons: PBS Televsion



I'm brand new and I walked in and disagreed with Everyone!

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to the rack with ye!

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9/19/2007, 9:20 pm PM toxiczen
 


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