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MaximusDementis
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The concept of a just war



The current Catechism of the Catholic Church (n. 2309) defines the four conditions for determining the justice of a war as:

*the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;


*all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;


*there must be serious prospects of success;


*the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated.

These are hard conditions to fulfill; the Church teaches that war should always be the last resort.





Just War


Sikhism has a concept of the Just War. It's called Dharam Yudh, meaning war in the defence of righteousness.

In such a war:

*the war must be the last resort - all other ways of resolving the conflict must be tried first

*the motive must not be revenge or enmity

*the army must not include mercenaries

*the army must be disciplined

*only the minimum force needed for success should be used

*civilians must not be harmed

*there must be no looting, territory must not be annexed, property taken must be returned

This is similar to the ideas contained in western Just War theory.

Sikhs also believe that treaties and cease-fires must be honoured, places of worship (of any faith) should not be damaged, and soldiers who surrender should not be harmed.

The crucial difference from just war theory is that Sikhs believe that, if a war is just, it should be undertaken even if it cannot be won.

Sikhs are expected to take military action against oppression, and there is no modern tradition of absolute pacifism amongst Sikhs, although Sikhs are strongly in favour of action to promote human rights and harmony between religions and states.

In the time of its founder, Guru Nanak, in the 16th century CE, Sikhism was clearly a religion of peace.

Guru Nanak wrote:

No one is my enemy
No one is a foreigner
With all I am at peace
God within us renders us
Incapable of hate and prejudice.

           Guru Nanak

From the time of the 5th guru, Arjan Dev, Sikhism became increasingly militant, but only in response to oppression and attempts to suppress the faith.

The 6th guru, Guru Har Gobind, thought that military action would sometimes be needed to promote the cause of justice and protect the innocent from attack.

The 10th guru, Guru Gobind Singh, gave the Sikhs the mission of fighting against oppression and formed the khalsa.

Guru Gobind Singh made it clear that military action was to be the last resort, but emphasised that they should not be avoided if they proved necessary:

When all efforts to restore peace prove useless and no words avail,

Lawful is the flash of steel. It is right to draw the sword.

           Guru Gobind Singh



Last revised by MaximusDementis, 9/12/2007, 12:44 pm
9/12/2007, 12:38 pm PM MaximusDementis
 
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Re: The concept of a just war


It looks like these two religions agree that we should not have gone to war against Iraq. emoticon

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9/12/2007, 7:49 pm PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
MaximusDementis
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Re: The concept of a just war


Yes, I agree. By just war theory, our war with Iraq is very hard to justify. However, the war with the Taliban is perfectly justfiable.
9/13/2007, 10:48 am PM MaximusDementis
 
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Re: The concept of a just war


Just by decency and logic, our war with Iraq — as well as the things we were doing to them and their neighbors long before that — are impossible to justify.

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9/13/2007, 6:35 pm PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
OrbitusVode
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Re: The concept of a just war


I agree with these proposals of Just War. I do not, however, believe that minimal necessary force should be used. The greater a force you can bring to bear against the adversary, the less soldiers have to die. Close wars are bloody ones.

And I disagree with Maximus that our war on the Taliban is justified. The Taliban is small, its survival dependent on safety from governments. We have not exhausted several courses of action that would preclude war.

1.) We have not been attacked by the Taliban. But for the sake of arguement, assuming we have been attacked...

2.) We have not listened to their reasons for attacking us and addressed them; these being the Imperial nature of our interaction with foreign sovereign nations and the suffering it causes. Islam traditionally is at peace with the West until provoked in such a manner.

3.) We have not sanctioned terrorist states economically. How could it be that we're attacking weaker states when the U.N., or at least NATO, is perfectly capable of bringing nations to their knees by isolating them from most world markets? Our lust for profit has eclipsed our desire for peace. (Note that the sanctions against Iraq are not valid, as this nation did not support terrorism. I'm not holding my breath for sanctions against Pakistan. We're busy selling them F-15E's.)

What we have done has broken the laws of Just War of the Sikhs in several instances.

We have acted out of revenge. We have hired mercenaries. We have killed civilians in tremendous numbers. This has caused more evil than the event that sparked the action.

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9/14/2007, 9:41 pm PM OrbitusVode AIM
 
MaximusDementis
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Re: The concept of a just war


The Sikhs only came to war reluctantly. At first they wanted nothing to do with it. Then they were attacked by both Islam and the Hindus. And they were being wiped out. The guru or leader at the time, and this is way back say in the 13th or 14th century (I forget exactly when it was))decided that if the Sikh's did not fight their survival was in jeopardy. S fight they did, and survive they did, winning several battles. It is said that in the aftermath of one battle, the Sikh's victorious, one of their number took pity upon the wounded Moslem's, and began to go around and tend to them. Some other Sikh's saw this and were outraged, so they caught this young man and took him to the guru. He was asked why he helped the enemy, and the young man explained he felt pity for them and they were helpless and wasn't it p-art of their religion to help the needy. The guruagreed that it was and he himself went out to help the wounded enemy as well. Other versions say it was the guru in disguise in the first place going out and helping the wounded enemy.

There is much to admire in Sikhism. Isn't it ironic that some were murdered qand other discriminated against because they looked different in the aftermath of 9/11. A true Sikh would never use terrorism and they are a very peaceful, law-abiding group.
9/17/2007, 4:48 pm PM MaximusDementis
 
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Re: The concept of a just war


How did the Muslims treat the Sikhs after the Sikhs had helped the Muslims?

I think if our troops were to help the wounded Iraqis who are fighting for their freedom from us right now, then they might stop recruiting so many fighters and start trying for a more peaceful solution. Of course, that wouldn't stop the civil war, and I'm sure there are enough brainwashed fundies who would still do stupid ****, so our administration would just turn around and say we're winning but have to keep fighting. I still think we should help their wounded as long as we're forced to be there, though. It's the right thing to do, plus it could still help improve sentiment and calm things down a bit, so fewer people would be hurt in the first place... maybe. But it's still the right thing to do.

If this sounds too simplistic, my apologies. I'm a bit tired from staying up too late the last couple of nights. emoticon

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9/18/2007, 7:03 pm PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
OrbitusVode
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Re: The concept of a just war


Help their wounded? It is our intention to incite a continual stream of wars to win. We have been doing this since we were strong enough to win wars. Our soldiers are given no time to make bonds with Iraqis, or honor their consciences. They must fight or die, and this forces Iraqis to do the same.

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9/19/2007, 1:06 am PM OrbitusVode AIM
 
Lesigner Girl
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Re: The concept of a just war


I vaguely recall a story my dad once told me about a family member who went to Vietnam. This family member was on a ship with a mission to launch bombs at a target, and were not allowed to return to base until all those bombs were launched, so they dumped them all overboard.

What if our troops went in with tanks, but didn't fire off any ammunition. What if they had a translator in one of those tanks with a megaphone, telling the Iraqi people how much they don't want to be there, and don't want to hurt any of them.

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9/19/2007, 9:51 pm PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
toxiczen
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Re: The concept of a just war


i would love to live long enough to see non-cooperation with the powers that be on a large scale.
whats the alternative if the soldiers don't do the rich bastards fighting for them? they do it themselves?! emoticon


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10/28/2007, 8:22 pm PM toxiczen
 


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