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toxiczen
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Thanksgiving
Today is a time of celebrating for you... but it is not a time of celebrating for me. It is with heavy heart that I look back upon what happened to my people... The pilgrims had hardly explored the shores of Cape Cod four days before they robbed the graves of my ancestors, and stolen their corn, wheat, and beans... Massasoit, the great leader of the Wampanoag, knew these facts; yet he and his people welcomed and befriended the settlers..., little knowing that... before 50 years were to pass, the Wampanoags... and other Indians living near the settlers would be killed by their guns or dead from diseases that we caught from them... Although our way of life is almost gone and our language is almost extinct, We the Wampanoags still walk the land of Massachusetts... What has happened cannot be changed, but today we work toward a better America, a more indian America where people and nature once again are important.
chief of Wampanoags at a 1970 thanksgiving celebration sponsored by the Massachusetts department of commerce.
(they did not allow this speech after reading it)
i hope everybody has a good and well fed day!
---
"Love is the strongest force the world possesses, yet! it is the humblest imaginable."
~Gandhi
"it is easier to tell the truth: you don't have to remember anything"
~Mark Twain
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11/22/2007, 9:50 am
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: Thanksgiving
Finally, someone I know who understands why I don't celebrate Thanksgiving anymore than I would celebrate the Holocaust. Thank you for posting that, Paul. 
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11/22/2007, 8:18 pm
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Lesigner Girl
Minerva
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Re: Thanksgiving
When so many people have the day off, it does make for a good opportunity for families and/or friends get together and celebrate life for a day, without the need for a holiday theme. 
I prefer a good family bbq in the summer, though. 
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11/23/2007, 6:18 pm
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hok
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Re: Thanksgiving
I like that saying. I am a full blood lakota. the ones that kicked custers ass at little bighorn. did you ever hear who crazy horse is if so I am not boasting but merely stating a fact. I am related to the great legend not a direct descendent becuz he never had any. but somehow. i never really look closely at our family tree.
Last revised by hok, 11/29/2007, 12:40 pm
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Im not a american idiot.
I am one man but I am still one man I cant do everything but I can do something.
We need not dwell on past or future but on present.
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11/29/2007, 12:38 pm
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: Thanksgiving
You should look closer at your family tree, because it sounds interesting!  If you're not a direct descendant of Crazy Horse himself, then a descendant of his dad would be the next best thing.
1/8 Cherokee, 1/8 Apache, relative of General E. Lee (not sure if direct descendant or not), and I think there's a relation to Cole Younger as well. I've been meaning to look into all the details.
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11/29/2007, 11:00 pm
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Metis
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Re: Thanksgiving
It’s doubtful that there are many “full blood” Amerindians left. In fact, crazy horse himself was nicknamed “Curly” as he had the same light, curly hair that his mother had. Of course, light, curly hair is not an Asian characteristic but a European one. No matter, what’s important is that someone preserves the cultural heritage.
The Sioux and their allies beat Custer plainly and simply because they outnumbered him (up to 1800 warriors versus Custer’s 625 or so [a little over 200 in his specific group took part in the "last stand" – he split his contingent into four sections, his being the largest]), out fought him (using what accounts to modern fire and maneuver tactics), and outgunned him (having mostly repeating rifles versus Custer’s single-shot rifles and six-shot pistols).
Unfortunately, the publicity surrounding the defeat actually worked against the plains tribes and resulted in their eventual defeat.
My family are good old American mutts: Scotch, Irish, English, German, Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw and who knows what else.
Last revised by Metis, 11/30/2007, 3:24 am
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11/30/2007, 3:19 am
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hok
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Re: Thanksgiving
no we did not outnumber them by that much. And no offense but what the **** would you know. The press released as to save ****ing custer from shame by beating by so called savages. remember our men were mostly hunters they were fighting for the survival of their people from people like custer and harney the women killer your army were trained muderers but my ancestors were fighting for survival and were not as advanced as your guys so i say they did pretty good against the army. if i could no offense i would go back in time and kill all men who went against my people. oh yeah im full blood but my hair is pretty light and my skin isnt as dark as my friends who are halfbreeds. have you ever heard of traits you idiot but no offense but if you ever suggest that crazy had white **** in him i will find you. one day im going to kick all you white ****s out of black hills destroy the presidents faces and rename peak harney. how much those thing are dishonoring crazy horse and the black hills. oh yea not to be mean but so what if yo have a drop of indian blood yo are still white to me and the rez.
---
Im not a american idiot.
I am one man but I am still one man I cant do everything but I can do something.
We need not dwell on past or future but on present.
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11/30/2007, 12:46 pm
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toxiczen
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Re: Thanksgiving
with all that venom hok saying "no offense" 3 times is kinda silly...
i agree that the carving of the presidents on mount Rushmore, and the project to carve a big crazy horse is dumb, and disrespectful, but
one day I'm going to kick all you white ****s out of black hills
is just ignorant bigotry, there are plenty of white folk (even in the black hills area) who are nothing like the ones responsible for what happened in the past. i know your passionate about the atrocities that befell natives in the past and present day, i am as well! and I'm not a native American, NOR DO I HAVE TO BE! a human is a human, wrong is wrong, nobody deserves to have there graves robbed, or be forced to walk a trail of tears watching loved ones drop from exhaustion, while drunk soldiers laugh. its horrible! but what you hold on to holds on to you, it is only my humble opinion but i think there was a lot of wisdom in the speech the chief of Wampanoags wrote.
---
"Love is the strongest force the world possesses, yet! it is the humblest imaginable."
~Gandhi
"it is easier to tell the truth: you don't have to remember anything"
~Mark Twain
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11/30/2007, 9:43 pm
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Metis
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Re: Thanksgiving
Actually I was just going by what recent archeological and historical evidence has shown probably actually happened at the Little Bighorn.
To say that the Sioux warriors were just “hunters” is both doing them a disservice and ignoring the fact that the Indian tribes were constantly raiding each other and “white” settlements and thus honing their fighting skills, whereas most of Custer’s men had just returned from a year of garrison duty and 20% of these were raw, untrained recruits.
To say that the Sioux were not as advanced is also doing them a disservice and flat-out ignores the (well documented) fact that the weapons they used were for the most part far superior to those possessed by the 7th Cavalry. The only exception was the Gattling guns, which were left behind by Custer as he deemed them to be too heavy.
Let me quote one well-researched study:
“There were 2,361 cartridges, cases and bullets recovered from the entire battlefield, which reportedly came from 45 different firearms types (including the Army Springfields and Colts, of course) and represented at least 371 individual guns. The evidence indicated that the Indians used Sharps, Smith & Wessons, Evans, Henrys, Winchesters, Remingtons, Ballards, Maynards, Starrs, Spencers, Enfields and Forehand & Wadworths, as well as Colts and Springfields of other calibers. There was evidence of 69 individual Army Springfields on Custer's Field (the square-mile section where Custer's five companies died), but there was also evidence of 62 Indian .44-caliber Henry repeaters and 27 Sharps .50-caliber weapons. In all, on Custer's Field there was evidence of at least 134 Indian firearms versus 81 for the soldiers. It appears that the Army was outgunned as well as outnumbered.”
I can see why the Black Hills were considered "sacred" -- it is one of the prettiest places I’ve seen in North America, and I’ve traveled to almost every natural site in the “lower 48” too (I’ve yet to see the Everglades).
BTW, there is nothing wrong with having "white" genes, as there is nothing wrong with having "Indian" genes. And as to "you" and "us," well my family is full of “Indians” – my Grandpa was part Cherokee and also part Chickasaw and my favorite uncle was more than half Choctaw. Grandpa’s mom and Will Rogers' mom (a Cherokee) were cousins and Grandpa's dad is on the Dawes rolls (again as a Cherokee). One of Grandpa's cousins married into Jackson McCurtain’s family (McCurtain was the chief of the Choctaw nation) so that side of the family is full of Choctaws too.
No personal offense but you seem to have some severe emotional and cultural problems that you need to work out. Also, as I once worked for many years in emergency medicine, your tirade suggests to me that you may have a drug or alcohol abuse problem, if so then you really do need help with this too.
Oh yes, and I also have heard of "traits" as I'm a retired instructor of biology.
Last revised by Metis, 12/1/2007, 7:58 am
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12/1/2007, 2:58 am
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