Temple of Illusia
 »  Illusions of the Mind .
 »  »  Scientology on trial for fraud


Runboard.com       

Jump to Page:  1  2  3 

 
Morwen Oronor
Citizen
Worldly Traveler

Registered: 01-2008
Posts: 1912
Karma: 18 (+19/-1)
Avatar
Reply | Quote
Scientology on trial for fraud



PARIS, France (CNN) -- The Church of Scientology went on trial this week in France, accused of fraud in a case that sheds light on the group.

If found guilty, the church could be forced to shut down in France, though appeals could see the case continue for years.

"This is a process in heresy," Daniele Gounord, the spokeswoman for Scientology in France, told reporters.

The two plaintiffs, both women, say they were defrauded by the organization, which is classified as a sect in France.

Their complaints focus on the use of a device that Scientologists say measures spiritual well-being. Members use the electropsychometer, or E-Meter, to "locate areas of spiritual duress or travail so they can be addressed and handled," according to Scientology's Web site.

The women say that, after using the device, they were encouraged to pay for vitamins and books. They say that amounted to fraud.

The first plaintiff, Aude-Claire Malton, is a housekeeper at a Paris hotel who says she spent about €21,000 ($29,000) in "sauna therapy" and classes to "heal the mind," according to French media.

Her fellow plaintiff is Nelly Reziga, who has told French media that her boss fired her because she refused to attend classes at the Scientology church.

Reziga's boss, Max Barbault, was originally a defendant but has died, according to French media.

Six Scientology members are now on trial, along with two corporate entities -- the church and the bookshop it runs in Paris.

If found guilty, the Scientology members would face a maximum of 10 years in prison and fines of as much as €10 million ($13.9 million) each.

The church and the bookshop could be liable for as much as €5 million ($6.95 million) in fines and could be forced to shut down if found guilty.

The trial began Monday and is scheduled to last until June 17. The defendants are expected to appeal if found guilty.



 emoticon emoticon

---
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.William Spencer Churchill
5/26/2009, 10:58 pm Link to this post PM Morwen Oronor Read Blog
 
toxiczen
Citizen
Worldly Traveler

Registered: 10-2006
Province: everywhere and nowhere...
Posts: 935
Karma: 33 (+33/-0)
Avatar
Reply | Quote
Re: Scientology on trial for fraud


humans are wacky... emoticon

---
"Love is the strongest force the world possesses, yet! it is the humblest imaginable."
~Gandhi

"it is easier to tell the truth: you don't have to remember anything"
~Mark Twain
5/27/2009, 8:56 am Link to this post PM toxiczen
 
Lesigner Girl
Minerva
Worldly Traveler (premium)
Head of Runboard staff

Registered: 11-2005
Province: YouTube/LesignerGirl
Posts: 6857
Karma: 101 (+115/-14)
Avatar
Reply | Quote
Re: Scientology on trial for fraud


It's about time someone took them to court for fraud. emoticon

---
Reliable Web Hosting
Are you ­­­­?


Image
5/27/2009, 5:53 pm Link to this post PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
Morwen Oronor
Citizen
Worldly Traveler

Registered: 01-2008
Posts: 1912
Karma: 18 (+19/-1)
Avatar
Reply | Quote
Re: Scientology on trial for fraud


I think they should be banned everywhere!
And they should take JWs with them.

---
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.William Spencer Churchill
5/28/2009, 12:43 am Link to this post PM Morwen Oronor Read Blog
 
SKOKEY
Citizen
Worldly Traveler

Registered: 12-2005
Province: Bennington, NH
Posts: 780
Karma: 13 (+14/-1)
Avatar
Reply | Quote
Re: Scientology on trial for fraud


Since they are all frauds, how do you decide which ones to ban?
I think the best you can do is collect evidence of damages and sue the ones causing the most harm.
5/28/2009, 6:03 am Link to this post PM SKOKEY
 
Morwen Oronor
Citizen
Worldly Traveler

Registered: 01-2008
Posts: 1912
Karma: 18 (+19/-1)
Avatar
Reply | Quote
Re: Scientology on trial for fraud


Or build a church worshipping Satan right next door to them and go into religious bookshops demanding that they sell books about satanism, and the Jedi because they are religions too, then if they refuse, sue them for discrimination.
But I would build a satanic church next to theirs and have sacrifices - i.e. bar-b-ques while they're having services and advertise that we're bar-b-qing children.
 emoticon

---
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.William Spencer Churchill
5/28/2009, 7:24 am Link to this post PM Morwen Oronor Read Blog
 
rumplestilskin4
Citizen
Worldly Traveler

Registered: 02-2009
Posts: 43
Karma: 1 (+1/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: Scientology on trial for fraud


Religion seems only to be a way for thought control of human beings. Once a person can sway you to think as they want you to, it is only a small step to make a slave of you!

Bummy74


 

  emoticon

---
bummy74
5/28/2009, 8:08 am Link to this post PM rumplestilskin4
 
Morwen Oronor
Citizen
Worldly Traveler

Registered: 01-2008
Posts: 1912
Karma: 18 (+19/-1)
Avatar
Reply | Quote
Re: Scientology on trial for fraud


Welcome Bummy, nice to see you here.
 emoticon

---
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.William Spencer Churchill
5/28/2009, 12:13 pm Link to this post PM Morwen Oronor Read Blog
 
Lesigner Girl
Minerva
Worldly Traveler (premium)
Head of Runboard staff

Registered: 11-2005
Province: YouTube/LesignerGirl
Posts: 6857
Karma: 101 (+115/-14)
Avatar
Reply | Quote
Re: Scientology on trial for fraud


Welcome to Illusia, Bummy! emoticon


Unfortunately, a lot of pastors/preachers/etc actually believe in what they preach, if for no other reason than it's been around for thousands of years. Scientologists don't have as much ground to stand on, and you can bet the ones who hook up fake electrodes and recommend vitamins (that I'm sure they sell) based on faked "results" are absolutely certain that they are committing fraud.


Skokey wrote:

I think the best you can do is collect evidence of damages and sue the ones causing the most harm.

It's one thing if we can prove intent to defraud the public, but what can we do about the church leaders who actually believe what they teach?

I was reading fstdt.com the other day, and someone quoted the mother of a teenage boy. She found out he was gay, and her response was something about letting the church help him wash away that sin. His response was, "You're just like everybody else!" and he stormed into his room. The boy was seeing a counselor, who told the mother that she can't change who the boy is and that being gay is ok. Unfortunately, her response to that was to find a counselor with "better morals." She sounded like she loved her son very much, and only wanted to help him. After her quote on fstdt.com, there was an update by the person who submitted that quote. The boy had committed suicide.

While that mother probably wasn't a church leader, the pastor at her church probably believed 100% that people aren't born gay and that homosexuality can be "cured." Rather than throw a huge percentage of the population in jail for doing destructive things out of the best intentions, I think our best way to fight this kind of dangerous belief is through educating people before they develop those dangerous beliefs, and hopefully reaching a few who already have those beliefs in the process.

I wonder what that mother would have done if someone could have helped her realize before it was too late, that the boy might commit suicide if she didn't stop pushing him. After all, she was trying to save the boy from an eternity in hell, but I'm sure she believed that committing suicide would result in the same fate.

---
Reliable Web Hosting
Are you ­­­­?


Image
5/28/2009, 5:38 pm Link to this post PM Lesigner Girl Read Blog
 
Morwen Oronor
Citizen
Worldly Traveler

Registered: 01-2008
Posts: 1912
Karma: 18 (+19/-1)
Avatar
Reply | Quote
Re: Scientology on trial for fraud


I have a theory about deep religious belief based on nothing but years of observation of people who are deeply religious.
I suppose my theory is based in some ways on Freudian theory because his is the one that has the most to say about sexuality and behavior.
My theory is that there is a correlation between acceptance of sexuality and repression of the sex drive and deep religious belief.
I wish I'd figured this out when I was a lot younger and able to do some real research on it. Unfortunately now to be able to do the research and to get viable, valid results is a bit beyond me.
I think (and this is really only a hypothesis) that Freud made this observation as well and when he commented about religion, and when he formulated his theories, this was one of the things he was trying to say.
I'm sure that the more open we are about who and what we are sexually, and the less we repress our sexuality, the more we are likely to move away from the superstition and narrow-mindedness of deep religion.
As in the case you're talking about Lesa.
Most religious people tend to believe that we are like lions and lionesses, i.e. very male with the need to 'rule' the home, or very female with a need to nurture and protect the inhabitants of the home. So they see any behavior that is not strongly male or strongly female as deviant because their religion tells them so.
People who don't base their conception of behavior on their religion, tend to look outside the strict definitions and accept that our behavior doesn't have to be defined by our sex organs but rather by who we are as people. When it comes to actual sex behavior, non-religious people are far more accepting of sexual preferences that are outside of those dictated by someone's physical gender.
And oddly, once people 'come out' where they were previously deeply religious as an attempt to change their own behavior, and especially when they sought religious 'help' to change their sexual behavior, they tend to abandon their deep religious beliefs.
I'm not saying that all fundamentalist men are secretly gay, that's far too simplistic and it has more to do with power and other psychological oddities than sexuality, neither am I saying that all fundamentalist women are secret lesbians.
Hey, maybe I'm onto something here, is it possible that Anne Coulter is secretly a lesbian???
I have a lot more to say on the subject, but now don't want to be boring.

---
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.William Spencer Churchill
5/28/2009, 10:13 pm Link to this post PM Morwen Oronor Read Blog
 


Add to this discussion

Jump to Page:  1  2  3 



You are not logged in (login)
Board's time is: 2/9/2010, 6:18 pm EDT