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Petal Alderin
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Charles Darwin too Controversial?
Interesting??!!
Darwin too controversial for religious America
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9/12/2009, 1:33 pm
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SKOKEY
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Re: Charles Darwin too Controversial?
I guess we'll have to wait until it comes out on DVD.
Pretty sad, isn't it?
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9/12/2009, 3:03 pm
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bummee
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Re: Charles Darwin too Controversial?
Now that's odd!
I just saw this same posting on a different board!
Wonder what kind of flack this intriging topic will produce?
Bummy
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9/12/2009, 5:36 pm
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Morwen Oronor
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Re: Charles Darwin too Controversial?
SKOKEY said:
I guess we'll have to wait until it comes out on DVD.
Pretty sad, isn't it?
I said on another board that the problem is not so much the religious aspect of Darwinism but that fact that people in general are too ignorant to want to bother to learn anything about people from other countries. I verified this on my visit to Britain. Most people there don't know and don't care to know where South Africa is. They didn't quite get some of our references like for instance they'd ask if we wanted a 'bag' in a shop, meaning a plastic bag then say that they were plastic and not paper if we asked for a 'packet' which is how we sometimes refer to them i.e. plastic bag/packet/ To the British a packet is paper and a bag is plastic and we had that one pointed out to us as if we were totally stupid but without any comment like "what accent is that?" It was only when we mentioned that we were South African that people might comment but even then there was no interest except from football fans who would say something about the world cup.
We got hardly any interest in our country from the people we spoke to, they just don't care if it isn't 'English'.
All the television is British with only a few American shows on channels way down the list and those aren't new series either.
So my feeling about the movie is that it would probably be popular in Britain because he was British and not of any interest to the average American, not because of his science but because he wasn't American.
No insult intended there, I just think that most ordinary people are only interested in people from their own country and that the idea that it isn't being promoted in the US because of the religious aspect is merely a publicity stunt.
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The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.William Spencer Churchill
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9/15/2009, 12:10 am
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bummee
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Re: Charles Darwin too Controversial?
Exactly true Morwen!
Two people might be expressing the exact same idea. But they are using two different sets of words.
And neither person really understands what the other person is saying.
This happens to me all the time!
Bummy
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9/15/2009, 6:29 am
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: Charles Darwin too Controversial?
If you stop speaking in riddles all the time, Bummy, people might actually start understanding you.
MO, I once overheard the owner of the print shop where I work saying, "There is no such thing as A4." My first reaction was to burst out laughing at his ignorance. After that, I thought that was pretty typical of a Bush supporter. This print shop owner cares so little about what goes on outside the States, he probably believes the whole world uses 8.5x11-inch paper as the standard. 
Then again, he believes he sells "lables" and "stationary", printed on "Cogar" (Cougar) brand paper. 
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9/15/2009, 5:00 pm
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bummee
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Re: Charles Darwin too Controversial?
Hey Lesigner girl
A few questions for you to ask yourself. What decade were you born in? What kind of education do you have? What kinds of experiences have you had? What is your lifestyle?
Are they different from say Carl Sagan or Stephen Hawking or Leo Bascaglia?
Are you going to have the same experiences and ideas these well known people have? Of course not!
Most likely you would become lost if they tried to explain their thoughts or ideas in just one way. They, if they wanted to take the time, would give you their ideas in several different ways. You would have little idea what they were talking about. Somewhere along the line you probably would begin to grasp what they might be talking about.
Would you call these men stupid or ignorant if they started to tell you about their lives and the things they did? Their families and their childhood and their ancestors? Would you tell your own Daddy or grandfather that his life was not important and whatever they did was a waste of time?
I would NEVER TELL MY FOLKS THAT THEIR LIVES WERE NOT IMPORTANT. I would not tell your parents or grandparents they were not important either! Or that they talked in riddles. If I did not understand then I would ask them to explain what they mean.
Bummy
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9/15/2009, 7:05 pm
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Morwen Oronor
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Re: Charles Darwin too Controversial?
Lesigner Girl said:
MO, I once overheard the owner of the print shop where I work saying, "There is no such thing as A4." My first reaction was to burst out laughing at his ignorance. After that, I thought that was pretty typical of a Bush supporter. This print shop owner cares so little about what goes on outside the States, he probably believes the whole world uses 8.5x11-inch paper as the standard.
Then again, he believes he sells "lables" and "stationary", printed on "Cogar" (Cougar) brand paper.
Yes, very typical of ringwingers. It's funny how lack of education seems to go hand-in-hand with narrow-mindedness. A typical example of this is a current issue about the gender of one of our athletes. Because he/she was born with what appeared to be female genitals, he/she was brought up as a girl. When the child displayed extraordinary athletic talent she was encouraged to compete nationally and internationally, with everyone in her support team ignoring the fact that she was displaying more and more male attributes. My feeling is that surely the absence of breasts and menstruation would've alerted them to the fact that she may be a boy.
Now the international athletic people have tested 'her' and found that she has undescended testes and no ovaries and no uterus and is therefore to all intents and purposes a man but still unable to function as a man without external male organs.
So what do the uneducated, narrow-minded family say? She's a girl.
It now appears that there have been many similar cases of people who were more male than female competing as women and some of them had even both male and female sex organs, a very common occurrence in Africa.
I don't know what my feeling is about where these athletes should compete. My first inclination is to suggest that they establish another gender group for people of indeterminate gender but then I can only imagine how the far right would deal with that one. "Sinners'! springs to mind.
What do you think?
---
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.William Spencer Churchill
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9/15/2009, 11:48 pm
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: Charles Darwin too Controversial?
MO,
I didn't realize it was so common in Africa, but if it's common enough to have a 3rd gender in sports, I say go for it. I do know that surgery is usually performed on babies here when they have both male and female genitals, but I think they should just leave them be. What is so wrong about having a 3rd gender?
I often wonder what the religious right -- or at least those who say marriage should only be between a man and a woman -- has to say about hermaphrodites getting married. Should they not be allowed to get married at all? I think not.
Bummy, I don't see how your post has anything to do with anything I've said. If you continue to talk in riddles, I will start to ignore you.
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9/16/2009, 12:04 pm
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Petal Alderin
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Re: Charles Darwin too Controversial?
Lesa, Mo ... I feel so desperately sorry for this young 18 year old who has unwittingly been landed in the midst of a very humiliating and degrading worldwide athletics controversy.
I think we need to remember that Caster Semenya is a naive farm girl and she herself was possibly uneducated when it came to normal female bodily changes and functions as she grew up. Perhaps if she did know about them, she was under the impression that her athletic lifestyle and rigid sports training problem could have maybe caused her not to develop fully as a woman, I don't honestly know.
There's now a huge fight between Athletics SA and the IAAF as to who did test on her when, whether the ASA did tests before she went to Berlin or not, etc etc.
All I do know is that this public scene must be so embarrassing for the poor girl who obviously can't help the way she was born, and all my sympathy goes out to her. I truly don't believe that she was trying to hoodwink anybody and that she competed in good faith.
She's now refusing to even speak, because the media concentrate so much on her deep voice, and the emotional and mental trauma that she must be going through are unimaginable. She must feel like a specimen in a laboratory at this stage, having to have her genitals photographed ... just awful.
I agree with you both about a having an inter-sex/3rd gender available for competition in the sports arenas of the world but I wonder how many people would like to be placed on public display regarding the fact that they're hermaphrodites and looked upon by many as a freak of nature. I just find the whole thing very, very sad.
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9/16/2009, 1:13 pm
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