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Lesigner Girl
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When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
Published on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
When Democracy Failed - 2005
The Warnings of History
by Thom Hartmann
This weekend - February 27th - is the 72nd anniversary, but the corporate media most likely won't cover it. The generation that experienced this history firsthand is now largely dead, and only a few of us dare hear their ghosts.
It started when the government, in the midst of an economic crisis, received reports of an imminent terrorist attack. A foreign ideologue had launched feeble attacks on a few famous buildings, but the media largely ignored his relatively small efforts. The intelligence services knew, however, that the odds were he would eventually succeed. (Historians are still arguing whether or not rogue elements in the intelligence service helped the terrorist. Some, like Sefton Delmer - a London Daily Express reporter on the scene - say they certainly did not, while others, like William Shirer, suggest they did.)
But the warnings of investigators were ignored at the highest levels, in part because the government was distracted; the man who claimed to be the nation's leader had not been elected by a majority vote and the majority of citizens claimed he had no right to the powers he coveted.
He was a simpleton, some said, a cartoon character of a man who saw things in black-and-white terms and didn't have the intellect to understand the subtleties of running a nation in a complex and internationalist world.
His coarse use of language - reflecting his political roots in a southernmost state - and his simplistic and often-inflammatory nationalistic rhetoric offended the aristocrats, foreign leaders, and the well-educated elite in the government and media. And, as a young man, he'd joined a secret society with an occult-sounding name and bizarre initiation rituals that involved skulls and human bones. ...
Sound familiar so far?
Read the rest of it here.
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4/27/2007, 8:24 pm
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Bhagwan
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Re: When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
Now that is down right scary!
--- We must hold those that have violated our rights and broke our laws accountable. We must show the world our system actually works before we can expect others to implement our ways.
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4/28/2007, 12:57 pm
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
It sure is. When I first read it, it took me a while to figure out if he was talking about events in history, or the right here and now.
Here are a couple more articles that should wake a few people up, both by Jacob G. Hornberger:
A Democratic Dictatorship (August 31, 2006)
How Hitler Became a Dictator (September 1, 2006)
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4/28/2007, 3:01 pm
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PM Lesigner Girl
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OrbitusVode
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Re: When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
Reminds me of Herman Goering's warning. He was the commander of Hitler's dreaded Air Force, and this is something he said at the Nuremberg trials for war crimes.
Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.
--- ...this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition...
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5/24/2007, 6:27 pm
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
It's pretty bad to read a quote from one of Hitler's commanders and agree with the whole damned thing; but every word of that quote describes what's going on right here and now perfectly.
When I read "When Democracy Failed," it was like reading a script that our own mis-leaders are following now. Hey, it worked for the Nazis, so why shouldn't it work for our administration? After all, most people never seem to learn what history can teach us.
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5/24/2007, 9:47 pm
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OrbitusVode
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Re: When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
Precisely. I've been looking at national polls now. It seems that anywhere between 33% and 58% of the nation now believes that our government has committed acts of terrorism against itself as a pretext to war, limiting of rights, and increased administrative power.
--- ...this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition...
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6/9/2007, 6:08 pm
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
Those numbers actually seem a little high. Does it show what questions were asked? Was it multiple-choice or yes/no?
If even the low end of that range is accurate, then there might be some hope for this country. I still find it hard to believe the number could be that high, though.
Do you have links to these polls?
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6/9/2007, 7:45 pm
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OrbitusVode
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Re: When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
I do not have links to these polls, but when Bill O'Reilly is reporting the number at 36%, that's good enough for me.
No it's not. Here are some polling numbers and their sources.
How responsible are they for 9/11?
59% say the CIA are very/somewhat responsible (36% not).
46% say Bush is very/somewhat responsible (49% not).
From Times/CNN poll, 5/22/07-5/23/07.
More later. Things got busy.
Last revised by OrbitusVode, 6/20/2007, 12:30 pm
--- ...this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition...
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6/20/2007, 11:58 am
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
If Bill O'Reilly quoted that figure, I can only suspect that he put it into the context that the "lying liberal media" – as he and his ilk claim – has brainwashed the public into believing it.
Calling them responsible isn't necessarily the same as calling it an inside job. Officials in many levels of government were responsible for letting so many people die from Hurricane Katrina because of their horrible response to it, but they certainly didn't cause the hurricane itself.
It's all in the wording of the poll. They need to ask more specific questions, like:
1) "Do you think the US government planned and implemented the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon on September 11, 2001?"
2) "Do you think the US government had plenty of warning but did nothing to prevent 9/11?"
3) "Do you think the US government had forewarning of the 9/11 attacks and did everything in their power to prevent it?"
4) "Do you think the US government had no forewarning of the 9/11 plot, and failed to react satisfactorily to the situation?"
5) "Do you think the US government had no idea of the 9/11 plot, and handled the situation as well as anyone could have in such a situation?"
Depending on the person answering the question, "do you believe ___ was/were responsible for 9/11," they could have scenario #1, #2, or #4 in mind when they say yes. Then when you combine "very" responsible and "somewhat" responsible into the same question, that far from determines how many people "believes that our government has committed acts of terrorism against itself as a pretext to war."
Hopefully one of the other polls you mentioned will be more definitive.

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6/24/2007, 12:14 am
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OrbitusVode
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Re: When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
This is exactly true, and I had it in mind when I posted. These polls do not imply that most people think the government did it. The polls imply that most people think the government should be held accountable for them, as opposed to the propaganda machine that alternately churned out conclusions that Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and Bill Clinton are responsible.
It was on the minds of the big pollers like Pew that people may not be comfortable directly answering a question over the phone that amounts to labelling themselves as radicals, thus the neutral phrasing of the questions.
It is a wonderful example, however, that both the polling firm and the public are aware that we are in a Constitutional crisis similar to the polarizing scares of the past, where people have become afraid of their government's capacity to punish them for speaking up.
--- ...this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition...
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7/8/2007, 8:19 pm
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