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MaximusDementis
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Handling Juveniles-TX versus MO
NPR had two very interesting stories on the way juvenile offenders are handled in MO and TX. The telling figure is this: MO has a recidivsm rate of 7.3%, Texas' rate tops 50%. Here are the relvant stories:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15784264
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15822844
Treating kids like adults is obviously the WRONG way to go. Perhaps other states will look to MO and try to emulate their programs rather than the hard headed, right wing, conservative approach of locking them up with adults. Very bad move, IMO.
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11/1/2007, 9:05 am
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SKOKEY
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Re: Handling Juveniles-TX versus MO
I was listening to the same report and shocked at the difference. At least this gives good case studies for both approaches. Now, if the hard heads can learn something from this...I know it's Texas, but maybe there's hope.
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11/1/2007, 9:34 am
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MaximusDementis
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Re: Handling Juveniles-TX versus MO
I doubt it. But all the scandals etc may. Remember Texas elected George before the nation did. 
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11/1/2007, 11:24 am
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MaximusDementis
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Re: Handling Juveniles-TX versus MO
It wouldn't work. It would just piss off the recipient of the spanking and would in no way reform them. Treating the kids like they do in MO seems to be working.
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11/2/2007, 11:03 am
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: Handling Juveniles-TX versus MO
I used to get welted by the belt if I didn't wash the dishes or clean my room. It didn't turn me into a criminal, but it did result in considerable anger issues that I had to overcome, and I can see how it could contribute to others becoming criminals.
Smacking a small child's hand as they reach for a hot BBQ grill could be useful, as they can associate reaching for this thing with an unpleasant sensation, without the 3rd degree burns they might have received from the grill itself. But this smack is a means of prevention, not punishment, and can be followed up with an explanation of why they shouldn't touch the grill.
I don't have any kids, but the trick seems to be to start discipline from the very beginning and to always be consistent. Unfortunately, too many parents will tell their kids no several times before giving in to a child's tantrums, or not bother to tell the kid no at all. All this teaches the child is that they can get away with anything if they are persistent enough, which makes it harder for them to adjust to the reality they face as adults.
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11/3/2007, 8:59 pm
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Onyx2201
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Re: Handling Juveniles-TX versus MO
I have not read the links, but I am NOT impressed with TX just from what I observe.
Beyond that the problems generally stem from problems with in the family.
I have seen, rather smelled the kids who come to school reeking of marijuana, mets the parents who cannot string 5 words together.
Societal problems stem from familial problems. And families need to start fixing themselves.
Over the years I've taught kids who have been shaken babies, of have fetal alcohol syndrome, or whose parents are in or going into jail. Not to mention the incest, and sexual abuse.
I don't have a quick easy fix. But I know that parents who expect their kids to be responsible have better kids. Parents who shift the blame teach their kids that cannnot own their failures or successes, because it is always the fault of somebody else.
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Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death.
-Auntie Mame
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11/10/2007, 8:30 pm
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jinzleftbuttcheek
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Re: Handling Juveniles-TX versus MO
Lesigner Girl said:
I used to get welted by the belt if I didn't wash the dishes or clean my room. It didn't turn me into a criminal, but it did result in considerable anger issues that I had to overcome, and I can see how it could contribute to others becoming criminals.
Smacking a small child's hand as they reach for a hot BBQ grill could be useful, as they can associate reaching for this thing with an unpleasant sensation, without the 3rd degree burns they might have received from the grill itself. But this smack is a means of prevention, not punishment, and can be followed up with an explanation of why they shouldn't touch the grill.
I don't have any kids, but the trick seems to be to start discipline from the very beginning and to always be consistent. Unfortunately, too many parents will tell their kids no several times before giving in to a child's tantrums, or not bother to tell the kid no at all. All this teaches the child is that they can get away with anything if they are persistent enough, which makes it harder for them to adjust to the reality they face as adults.
I agree that discipline is the root of most of the problems we have been observing. While I do concede that even the most well brought up children do turn to crime for one reason or another, the vast majority can be traced back to a lack of constant discipline. Take my Goo Bear, she does not get spankings but she knows right from wrong. She knows if you take candy out of a store without paying for it, you go to jail with all the other bad people. She also knows mommy will be really mad. I'm not sure which scares her more. In my experience, I have seen parents who have thought it real cute when "Lil' Bubba" is two and cursing at people, being defiant and being a general butt wipe. Oh that so cute, but when he is sixteen, they want to give him to the state cause they can't control him any more. Well Duh! As Barney would say "Nip it in the bud." I have had the worse time with strangers and Goo Bear. She is so darn cute and due to disabilities, they want to let things slide. It was long time before I could make her understand that you have to pay for stuff. Numerous times I had to march her back into a store and in front of everyone, apologize for taking their merchandise. Was it embarrassing for me? Heck yeah. It got even worse after the apology. The response was always "That's OK". Now I have to be a total ogre and say "You may tell her you accept her apology but you cannot tell her what she did was ok." You wouldn't beleive the evil looks I have gotten. What they do not understand is I am not her best friend, I am her mother. There are heavy responsibilities that go with that title.
Sorry, didn't mean to ramble and rant. 
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11/11/2007, 9:37 am
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Kourtesan
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Re: Handling Juveniles-TX versus MO
I think you made good points. As a parent, we have to juggle a lot of issues. Even with my daughter pushing adulthood at a rapid rate, I still keep a hand on the rudder.
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11/11/2007, 10:55 am
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Well it would piss me off when I got them but I'm not out committing crimes either. No suggesting it as any real solution, just an observation. 
