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toxiczen
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war on terrorism
so what viewpoint do y'all lean towards? is the US governments current "war on terrorism" justified? is it being handled well? should we stop? up the effort? what?
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7/28/2008, 5:26 pm
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: war on terrorism
It's a bunch of bull, no, no, yes, no, and the last question requires a longer answer, so here goes.
The United States government has been terrorizing those people for years, so it was only a matter of time before they fought back. I would have respected our attackers if they had gone after the Pentagon or other national offices, but they chose civilians, and that makes it justifiable to go after Osama bin Laden and the other surviving conspirators of that attack.
However, Saddam Hussein and Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with the attack on us, and while Hussein may have been a tyrant, he hasn't killed nearly as many innocent people as our own government has. To put it into perspective, when we went after Hussein, it was like a serial murderer going after an abusive father.
We broke Iraq, and I really don't think our government is actually trying to fix it. Instead, we've killed their civilians, added military bases, and protected the oil more than we've protected anyone or anything else, so if our next administration actually does want to fix things, it'll be too late, because there would be no good reason for the Iraqi people to trust us.
I don't know the specifics of what would happen if we pulled out suddenly and completely, but I do think fewer Iraqis would die on a daily basis if we did so, and I know there would be no more U.S. troops dying over there if they left. That said, in answer to you "what" question, I think we should just leave, while offering financial support for them to rebuild. It's not like we have the money to give, but it's the least we can do for screwing up their country and killing so many of their innocent people. I just hope the people in charge would know who to entrust with that financial support. Unfortunately, that's a moot point because our officials will find a way to profit from it.
Further, we need to stop terrorizing people in other countries, plain and simple. If it weren't for our government's actions against them, they wouldn't have had motive to attack us in the first place.
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7/29/2008, 6:29 pm
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Minerva
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Re: war on terrorism
We killed several times more civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki than Hussein is even alleged to in his entire reign. Further, I don't think it has ever been determined with any certainty who gassed Halabja around the time that Iranian troops had invaded it, despite the propaganda claiming that it was undoubtedly Hussein.
Perhaps someone should have stepped in when we dropped the nukes, or over the decade between Desert Storm and the start of the current war when we were murdering Iraqis by the thousands. Perhaps someone needs to step in right now while we continue to murder innocent Iraqi civilians by the thousands.
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7/31/2008, 9:14 pm
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toxiczen
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Re: war on terrorism
one thing that always bugged me is when back in the early 90's when we booted Saddam out of Kuwait (which he told us he was planning on doing ahead of time, and we said we wouldn't interfere) but when we kicked him out and occupied Iraq we told his people they should rise up against the tyrant running the country, than we VANISH! so many rise up and MANY are killed as a result of us not being there anymore to help... than we come back in 2003 screaming about how he is such a tyrant! killing his own people!
what a transparent ruse...
Last revised by toxiczen, 8/1/2008, 5:32 am
---
"Love is the strongest force the world possesses, yet! it is the humblest imaginable."
~Gandhi
"it is easier to tell the truth: you don't have to remember anything"
~Mark Twain
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8/1/2008, 5:31 am
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: war on terrorism
Well, we didn't vanish completely. We were dropping bombs and white phosphorous on their heads the whole time in our so-called sanctions.
It's a really ****ty thing our government has been doing to the Iraqi people and others in the middle east for so long, and then our government has the nerve to play innocent and claim Muslim ideology and/or jealousy was their motives for attacking us, when they were really fighting back against the continuous murdering and oppression. I don't condone their method of killing innocent people on 9/11, but at least they have the excuse of having been brainwashed and delusional, believing God would give them glory in heaven for fighting their people's murderers. Our government has no such excuse for all the countless murders they have committed. While Dubya does seem delusional, he isn't the brains behind the operation, nor did he start the "sanction" attacks against Iraq, nor did he start a lot of the things that were started before he took office, although he and his administration gladly continued and furthered it.
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8/1/2008, 8:10 pm
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MaximusDementis
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Re: war on terrorism
Double Standards in the Global War on Terror is a very interesting and disturbing review of the Bush war. The upshot? terrorism is alive and well and thriving even better than it was in the year 2000. So the much vaunted Bush war on terrorism is losing the "war"! Personally, I think the terrorists should be handeled as a police issue not a military issue. Bring in the military as a last resort. The terrorists are criminals using religious fantasy as a motivational tool and should be treated like criminals. I like the author's assertion that the planes crashing into the towers were just car bombs with wings, nothing new or innovative. Noting like the bio-terrorism which the FBI wants us to believe came out of Fort Detrich.
I am thinking we should defund all research into bioterrorism and close down all the labs (including Ft. Detrich) so we have no more mad scientists from within killing innocent people. Don't you agree? I mean, after all, it was a US lab which brought this terror into our society, and not the Arabs, the Russians or any of our other enemies, past or present. Germ warfare research is a lot like a gun in the home, its more likley to kill you or someone you love than any outside enemy or criminal.
 
Last revised by MaximusDementis, 8/19/2008, 2:03 pm
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8/19/2008, 1:09 pm
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MaximusDementis
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In the same vein.....
Illusions of Victory How the United States Did Not Reinvent War… But Thought It Did
He says it so much better than I can at the moment, plus he is a retired colonel from the US Army!
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8/19/2008, 2:01 pm
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Morwen Oronor
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Re: war on terrorism
I just typed a whole long tirade against your sill president and then lost it.
I'll try to remember some of what I said.
To reply to what Queeny asked, I don't think that this war is anything like WWII, and in that war, America did nothing about the reports of what Hitler's Henchmen were doing to their prisoners, the decision to go to war was based on the attack on Pearl Harbor and not in defence of Jews being killed.
Then to get back to this war. I think that the people around Dubya had a completely different agenda and it also had nothing to do with attacking Bin Laden's henchmen. I can't totally believe that the CIA is that inefficient that they didn't know that an attack was going to happen, I'm sure they did but when it did happen and the public demanded action, it happened. But why Iraq? Going after terrorist bases in Afghanistan made a lot of sense, taking out the Taliban didn't because as soon as the US pulls out of there, they will be back with a vengeance. And the people who will suffer are the ones like Karzai who 'collaborated' with the US. I do hope that the US is prepared to offer asylum to Karzai because he will be assassinated within a week of the US pulling out of there.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing when the US attacked Iraq, that the country was just being bombed and all the antiquities and residential areas etc, but the oilfields were protected.
I believe that Rumsfeld and Co had an agenda when it came to the invasion and the poor puppet president just looked at his atlas and said "oh that's where the oil comes from" and signed whatever he was told to sign. While I completely support the people who are over there fighting because that is what they feel they have to do, I can't support the reasons for them being there. But then I'm totally against all war so I'm really the wrong person to talk to about this.
I also understand that there are misguided people who accept the rhetoric that politicians spout about 'dying for causes' and the 'glory of war'. What the world needs is education without religious bias. freely available to every single person on the planet so that they can make informed decisions about giving up the only chance they have at life to fight other peoples' battles for them.
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8/19/2008, 11:52 pm
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: war on terrorism
I only have one thing to add to Mo's post, and it pertains to this:
I can't totally believe that the CIA is that inefficient that they didn't know that an attack was going to happen,...
August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing
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8/20/2008, 8:28 pm
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