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David Meadows
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Watchmen - an apology
(I've posted this elsewhere but for those who haven't seen it yet, here is my apology for why the Watchmen film is going to be a disappointment.)
Some history you need to know before March 6th:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5WsciSNVS0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd5cInmK6LQ
And something important you need to know:
Watchmen is the most complex piece of literature I have ever read. Everything relates to something else, or makes a commentary on something else. There are pages where the news vendor comments on the actions of the pirates, who are commenting on the actions of the heroes, and all the dialogue comments on the contents of the pictures (in which the backgrounds comment on the foregrounds), even though they've all got nothing to do with each other. This all in a single page. It's an incredibly dense narrative. Mind-bogglingly dense.
Here are some quotes from other people who think the same:
quote:
I re-read it again recently, and spotted something I hadn't noticed before.
quote:
It's chock-full of things like this - sometimes they so subtle that they're barely even perceptible (the occult symbolism of [spoiler's] death, for example).
(I had missed that myself... I had to re-read it yet again when I read that comment.)
quote:
This thread is making it ridiculously obvious that I need to reread Watchmen.
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
This may make mention of some aspects of the work you've not noticed before ... Mason's autobiography is called "Under the Hood"... because he's a masked superhero AND a car mechanic.
D'OH!
SecondD'OH'd!!!
As a lover of puns and wordplay, who has read Watchmen many, many times... thirdD'Oh'd.
quote:
I've read it all more than once, but I really feel this has helped me understand the Pirate sequences better.
Seriously, you cannot read Watchmen once.
And you must read the pirate sections and the text pages, otherwise you miss 50% of the cleverness. Incredibly, some people don't do this:
quote:
A friend of mine and I have talked Watchmen for years and I always felt that something was a little off with his analysis of the plot and thoughts on the characters, then I recently found out that he's read Watchmen 9 or 10 times and has never once read the pirate stuff or the text at the end of each chapter.
I gave him the unfortunate news that he's never actually read Watchmen and has been living in a fantasy world for years.
Got the idea yet? Ok...
Now here is what will happen if you go to the cinema on March 6th to see Watchmen:
You will see a superhero film with an interesting but simple plot, with almost no action and barely any visual spectacles. It will have too much talking and not enough fighting. If you're expecting a superhero film and you liked The Dark Knight or Iron Man last year, you will think Watchmen is incredibly dull.
You will leave the cinema and think, "if this is based on the most acclaimed graphic novel of all time, graphic novels must be complete rubbish".
The very best we can hope for the Watchmen movie is that it is going to be "ok". It can't be "great" Because there is no way on Earth it can reproduce what makes the book great. Even if they reproduce on film every visual detail of every single panel, you're going to miss most of the detail because you haven't watched it 10 times and freeze-framed each scene. And even if you do that, you'll miss how panels fit together on pages, and you'll miss the trick of how one entire issue is visually and thematically symmetrical from cover to cover... and even if they somehow capture that and you can see it by winding the film backwards and forwards... the film will not have any of the pirate scenes! (You will be able to buy them later on DVD.)
So I'm really sorry, but on March 6th you're not going to see the greatest movie of all time. I wish you were, but it's just not possible.
But...
I still get goose pimples every time I watch the trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VLA0tg5yI0
This is going to be the best film I've ever seen.
I'm truly sorry it won't be for everybody else 
---
And all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "save us!"...
...and I'll look down and whisper "no."
Rorschach
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2/17/2009, 11:32 am
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BaneBlade
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
This came up in chat...
I really don't know what to say, after having been dissapointed by Hollywood so many times. I don't see how they could pull it off. Especially given the enormously complex task of translating Watchmen to the screen.
But, I'll see it anyway. Why? Probably because as a child comic books gave me unreal expectations about the world, and taught me to hold out hope in the face certain disaster. There is also that little voice that says "What if."
What if you could fly? What if you were really someone else? What if this movie...
---
...waiting patiently for a few submissions to come back.
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2/17/2009, 3:09 pm
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QS2
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
Some very few rare times, I've actually seen fairly well made translations of even quite complex works. So while you are probably right, if we are very very lucky, we might get something surprisingly good. 
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2/17/2009, 5:41 pm
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JessieLong
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
I'll take my chances.
By the way, I really think Alan Moore is overrated.
---
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Writing : Marla Fleetwood and the Magic iPod
Backburner: Electric Ladythief, Scion and Ratface; The Rose and the Sword (books); Seekers (comic book series); Grey Submarine (series)
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2/17/2009, 9:30 pm
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David Meadows
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
A lot of people think that.
Which of course means that he isn't 
---
And all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "save us!"...
...and I'll look down and whisper "no."
Rorschach
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2/17/2009, 10:15 pm
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Corvus
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
I thought this was going to be an apology for the ungodly flood of hype. I was prepared to graciously accept on behalf of everyone who's tired of hearing about it.
I swear, if I never heard the word "Watchmen" ever again, it'll be too soon, after the unrelenting deluge surrounding the movie's sad saga... 
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2/18/2009, 4:26 am
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dragonlady
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
quote:
David Meadows wrote:
Disclaimer: while Alan Moore is a practicing magician, I have no evidence that he will really turn anyone into a toad.
I wouldn't put it past him. He looks like he might.
Although I suppose no one did that in Promethea.
Me and my fiance (who admittedly skips the pirate bits most times) are looking forward to Watchmen.
I'm not expecting it to be Watchmen: the graphic novel, because it's a film. So it'll be Watchmen: the film, which should be perfectly good. This attitude works with most adaptations and save us from disappointment. And its been q while since we've been to the cinema and my fiance was talking about actually booking tickets.
A colleague of mine said she tried to read Watchmen but found it a bit dull. I can see what she means, it does start a bit slowly especially if you're used to more active comics. I can see why you say the film might be quite slow for a comic book film, although I suspect the director will make up for it by making the film look very shiny.
Besides it gotta be better than the Spirit. Did you see that? It was well strange.
---
"Why sometimes I've believed as many as 6 impossible things before breakfast" -- Red Queen, Lewis Carrol
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2/21/2009, 11:16 am
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dragonlady
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
My fiance just sent me this link.
Tales of the Black Freighter trailer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zUgBK0-qbo
They couldn't really put it with the theatrical release because frankly it would probably make the film too long and would be a turn off to those who aren't already fans.
However the fact they're making the extra bits at all shows a care for the work as a whole. And it's well deserved extra treat for those who are fans.
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"Why sometimes I've believed as many as 6 impossible things before breakfast" -- Red Queen, Lewis Carrol
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2/21/2009, 12:25 pm
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JessieLong
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
I think my major problem here is Alan Moore's complete and utter refusal to even watch the movie, with the basis that he is convinced that no one can adapt his works properly, as they aren't even the same medium. Well, movies were made from books which thought to be impossible to made into movies -- war and Peace, Naked Lunch, or the Lord of the Rings trilogy. And God help me, if once something I write ends up a movie, I will cherish it and I will love it even if it will be an utter piece of crap. Because something inside that pile of garbage is a part of me. What Alan does, in my view, is Ego-feasting, and his holier-than-you attitude isn't helping here.
Ribb-friggidy-hoo
---
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Backburner: Electric Ladythief, Scion and Ratface; The Rose and the Sword (books); Seekers (comic book series); Grey Submarine (series)
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2/22/2009, 11:41 pm
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Corvus
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
quote:
JessieLong wrote:
Ribb-friggidy-hoo
Gee, tell us how you really feel. Don't hold back, now.
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2/23/2009, 8:41 am
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David Meadows
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
quote:
dragonlady wrote:
A colleague of mine said she tried to read Watchmen but found it a bit dull.
That's not an unusual reaction. When the comic was first serialised (1986/7), it got a lot of negative reaction. People who bought comic books couldn't understand why they were expected to read 24 pages plus five pages of text that had virtually no action and no scenes of muscular guys in capes beating each other up. The first issue really is fairly dull, and you haven't got a clue what's going on. It was only about half way through the series that people who had stuck with it started raving about it being the best thing since sliced bread, and people who had dropped it started kicking themselves. As a comic series its sales were quite poor and it only took off as a trade paperback reprint.
quote:
JessieLong wrote:
I think my major problem here is Alan Moore's complete and utter refusal to even watch the movie, with the basis that he is convinced that no one can adapt his works properly
Not entirely. I first read Alan Moore talking enthusiastically about a Watchmen movie in 1987. And he has sold movie rights to other properties he owns.
He became anti-film due to the way he feels he was mis-treated over V For Vendetta. They sent him a script, and he responded saying it wasn't very good. Then the producers went on record saying "Alan loves the movie".
It wasn't the fact that he was convinced his comics were unfilmable. It wasn't even that fact that he hated this particular script. It was the fact that the producers lied about him for publicity purposes. That was when Moore decided all Hollywood types were evil scum who couldn't be trusted. Not that his work was inherently unfilmable, but that film makers were just not worth working with.
To be honest, I sympathise with him. Though I also think he's grossly over-reacting and being more than a bit childish about it.
ribbit
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At midnight, all the agents and superhuman crew, go out and round up everyone who knows more than they do.
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2/23/2009, 10:38 am
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dragonlady
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
quote:
David Meadows wrote:
that had virtually no action and no scenes of muscular guys in capes beating each other up.
Let's not forget the posing ladies who get turned on by violence.
Sorry, slight issue I have with mainstream superhero comics.
In my defence I had a conversation with a (generally fairly erudite) friend the other day who believed that female nipples stood erect because of adrenaline. I corrected him by saying that only cold, arousal and some health problems had that affect. I put his misinformation down to comics (and similar media).
Anyway. Yes Alan Moore was badly treated over V for Vendetta. But I feel that the diehard Alan Moore fans were unfair on the film when they thoroughly slated it. I heard/read people going on about how it wasn't like the graphic novel (which I admittedly read after I saw the film).
I can't see a film set in a world extrapolated from the 1980s doing very well in 2005. Taking the concept and updating it (admittedly taking some of the weird out) whilst keeping the premise and feel of the original seemed perfectly valid to me.
---
"Why sometimes I've believed as many as 6 impossible things before breakfast" -- Red Queen, Lewis Carrol
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2/23/2009, 7:40 pm
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David Meadows
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
quote:
dragonlady wrote:
Taking the concept and updating it (admittedly taking some of the weird out) whilst keeping the premise and feel of the original seemed perfectly valid to me.
I agree, and I thought V for Vendetta was a good film because of that.
My reservations over Watchmen are that it won't do that, it will reamin faithful to the comic -- which is, really, unfilmable. An intelligent adaptation might actually produce a better film than a slavish copying. To compare it to the other "controversial" adaptation in recent years: does anyone really think that Tom Bombadil would have made Lord of the Rings a better film? 
---
At midnight, all the agents and superhuman crew, go out and round up everyone who knows more than they do.
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2/24/2009, 10:06 am
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David Meadows
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
I've just read the following review of the preview screening posted by Mark Millar. Millar is a comic writer I really respect at the moment, and I know he's been a Watchmen fanatic for as long as I have (i.e. 22 years). Plus he's worked as producer on movie adaptations of his own comics. So I take the following as quite a reliable guide to what I'll think about the film:
quote:
All the way through it, Jonathan [Ross, film reviewer and celebrity comic geek] and I kept looking at each other and unsure if we were loving it or not. It's very reverential, but maybe WAY TOO reverential for something that wasn't structured like a movie. This is a twelve episode HBO drama chopped down to three hours and feels simultaneously dense and yet somehow missing. I could fill in the gaps because I know the source material by heart, but friends who hadn't read the book were utterly, utterly baffled. I think the book is quite difficult, but that's part of the brilliance. Skimming over what's probably the most dense comic ever written wasn't such a good idea. It was like watching The Wire season one on fast forward.
That said, it has many, many things going for it. I love Dave [Gibbons, Watchmen artist] and saw he and his family there, all glowing with excitement. I couldn't be more pleased for him because the movie is a monument to he and Alan's talent. I think it's also as good as a Watchmen movie possibly good be. It's perfect in many ways, suffering only from being in the wrong format. Unusually, I think this will be remade as a TV show in the future and all the best bits stuck back in.
Nobody was quite sure if there was an afterparty so the gang all came back to my hotel. Neil Gaiman was next door and knackered, but being a trooper came and joined us for a gossip and I met some good lads called Ed Byrne and Dara O'Brien, both of whom work on telly though I'd never seen them before. Dara wasn't mad on the film, but Ed enjoyed it more than any of us. Like me, he'd been waiting for this since high school.
The weird thing is that he reports almost everything I have been predicting will be right/wrong with the movie.
And he's convinced me I'm going to love it.
---
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2/24/2009, 11:33 am
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dragonlady
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
Oh my goodness the name dropping!
And the kind of famous people I actually given a damn about, as opposed to 'celebrities'.
That does sound fairly optimistic. As I say I don't go into films expecting a complete adaptation. I usually reckon there'll be bits missing/changed. Look at Harry Potter and the awfulness of The Dark is Rising film.
I'd say that all the LotR fans I know didn't want Tom Bombadil but felt the sacking of the Shire was needed. Personally I reckon there's no reason to add another half hour to an hour on a plus three hour film.
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"Why sometimes I've believed as many as 6 impossible things before breakfast" -- Red Queen, Lewis Carrol
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2/24/2009, 9:38 pm
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JessieLong
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
Ah, Mark Millar. The man who delivered the decade's most disappointing ending with Civil War.
Oh well. I can live without watching the Watchmen, or V for Vendetta, or whatever movie adaptations Alan Moore is ignoring the next time. As a matter of fact, I lived well so far without even reading them, for that matter.
---
Reading: Mostly comic books...
Writing : Marla Fleetwood and the Magic iPod
Backburner: Electric Ladythief, Scion and Ratface; The Rose and the Sword (books); Seekers (comic book series); Grey Submarine (series)
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2/25/2009, 12:39 am
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David Meadows
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
quote:
JessieLong wrote:
Ah, Mark Millar. The man who delivered the decade's most disappointing ending with Civil War.
You mean you haven't read Final Crisis? Or Batman RIP? 
Last edited by David Meadows, 2/25/2009, 10:43 am
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2/25/2009, 10:41 am
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JessieLong
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
I don't read Grant Morrison. Too smart for me.
---
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Backburner: Electric Ladythief, Scion and Ratface; The Rose and the Sword (books); Seekers (comic book series); Grey Submarine (series)
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2/25/2009, 2:44 pm
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Firlefanz
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
I know nothing of Watchmen, but I just ran across an article that might be fun for those of you who do:
Quantum superheroes: The science of Watchmen
--- - Firlefanz
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3/11/2009, 7:48 pm
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David Meadows
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
quote:
Firlefanz wrote:
I know nothing of Watchmen, but I just ran across an article that might be fun for those of you who do:
Quantum superheroes: The science of Watchmen
It's a neat idea for an article, linking to previously-published articles about all the science they mention. Sort of a big themed index.
But what they are basically saying is that Doctor Manhattans powers are are scientifically rubbish. I don't think that will come as a surprise to anybody
Somebody commented the other day that Doctor Manhattan is basically the reader, which I found to be a brilliant parallel to draw. In the comic, Dr Manhattan can see all time simultaneously. He doesn't have the conventional sense of forward-flowing time that humans have -- the past, the present, the future are all *now* to him. So at any point in his life he can "see" any other point of his life he want to (he is powerless to change the future because it has already "happened", as for as he has concerned -- just as you or I are powerless to change the past we have just experienced).
This, of course, is exactly what the reader of a comic (or any book, I suppose) can do. At any point in the book, I can flip back a few pages to remind myself of something, or look at something in a new way. I can "freeze" time at any point, to look at a single page for as long as I like. I can flip forwards and see what is happening in the next chapter -- but I can't change it, because it has already "happened" when the writer committed it to the page.
The watcher of a movie does not have these powers. He is stuck moving forward through time at whatever speed the director wants him to.
So, there you have it. Book readers are more powerful than movie goers 
(Saw Watchmen last night and was immensely impressed. I can't think of a bad thing to say about it. But there were several points where I wished I had the power of a reader to go back and look again for bits I missed. There's a lot going on in the background and I think I only picked up a fraction of it. I will be going again.)
---
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3/12/2009, 2:15 pm
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QS2
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
So instead of being the expected failure, it is a great success then I take?
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3/12/2009, 4:00 pm
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David Meadows
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
Well, it does have all the faults that I predicted it would have: it is too slow, it's not an action movie, and it has a set of unlikeable, uncharismatic, psychologially-scarred characters.
In short, it's got nothing that audiences have been conditioned to expect from the superhero movies of the last five years. Nothing happens for the first third of the movie! You literally have one hour of flashbacks to explain why each of the characters is so messed up. Then, after that, you get a sort of a plot. A slow-burning mystery plot, with not much action.
To me, that was perfect. That was exactly how the movie should have worked. (That's exactly what the comic was like -- and the comic got really bad reviews when it came out, for exactly those reason. Here's Watchmen issue #1 and there are no fights, there's isn't much of a plot, and it's mostly just guys sitting around talking... how rubbish is this???)
To the people who were expecting something like X-Men or Iron Man...? It's going to be a spectacular disappointment.
I haven't seen any box-office figures, butI honestly can't see how this can be a commercial success (and the 18 certificate can't help).
Edit: having a bad typing day, sorry.
Last edited by David Meadows, 3/12/2009, 4:28 pm
---
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3/12/2009, 4:24 pm
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QS2
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
Hmmm, according to this it really didn't do all to badly at all. Though I don't know what this will mean moving in to the future though.
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3/12/2009, 4:31 pm
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dragonlady
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
quote:
David Meadows wrote:
I wished I had the power of a reader to go back and look again for bits I missed. There's a lot going on in the background and I think I only picked up a fraction of it. I will be going again.
Yeah David, I have one word (or maybe it's more like three letters): DVD.
I saw it yesterday and thought it was very good. There was a lot of background stuff I noticed, but probably a lot I didn't notice.
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3/12/2009, 10:23 pm
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Reythia
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
Heya!
I haven't contributed to this so far since I never read the comic and hadn't seen the movie til Tuesday. Having now seen it, I read all your comments and am ready to reply.
I found the movie... tolerable.
That's it. It wasn't a horrible movie. But it wasn't great, either. To be fair, after talking to a couple of friends who DID read the comic, I think that's exactly what I'd have thought of the original, too.
Mostly my lack of enjoyment comes down to two things:
1.) As Meadows said, "it has a set of unlikeable, uncharismatic, psychologially-scarred characters." Now, the main characters were very INTERESTING, don't get me wrong. But when not a one of them was likable, it made it hard for me to care about any of them. Which made the movie lack meaning, to me.
2.) The external society was unrealistic. I realize that this is a comic book story. Obviously, not everything is realistic! On the other hand, the way it was written (the comic, too, I'm told) is supposed to be a realistic alternate history, correct? So then, why aren't there any non-superheros who are acting responsibly and trying to change things. Let me know if the comic was different, but in the movie, the only non-superheros we see are semi-bad-guys. They're okay with blowing up the world. They don't like the idea of masked "heros", but they also make no attempt at stopping them. What happened to the rest of the police? Why didn't anyone try to stop, say, the Comedian's random murders? Basically, while I found the superhero group interesting and more-or-less realistic, I found the rest of society to be completely fake and flat. And since a large portion of the plot revolved around the reaction of the general public, that made the plot feel flat and unrealistic as well.
quote:
Dragonlady wrote:
I can't see a film set in a world extrapolated from the 1980s doing very well in 2005. Taking the concept and updating it (admittedly taking some of the weird out) whilst keeping the premise and feel of the original seemed perfectly valid to me.
I've heard a couple of others say this too, and I have to say that I disagree. Not that an "extrapolated" plot would necessarily be bad, of course, but I really think it's unnecessary. Since they dated the plot, I knew it was an alternate reality -- and one set 20 years ago, too. I know the history of the Vietnam War (sorry, Vietnam "Crisis"...) and I understand the principles of the Cold War, even if I didn't really live through it. Just like I can watch a WW2 movie and not need it "updated" to understand it, so I could watch this as is. Despite what others have said, the dating of the movie was one of the things that did NOT bother me. I don't think "extrapolating" would have changed either the flaws or the strengths of the movie (or the original comic, for that matter). It would have just been change for change's sake, so I'm glad they didn't take that route.
Oh, also, my final complaint. I realize that Dr. Manhattan was often shown nude in the comics, but REALLY, despite that, I did NOT need to see his junk hanging out all the time. Sorry, guys, but it's just not that attractive!
---  -- YAR! |
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3/19/2009, 6:20 pm
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Blitzen
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
The nudity (his and hers) didn't bother me but the violence did. I thought the film was gratuitously gory. I think it was because it went slowly during the more bloody scenes.
Actually, I found several of the characters to be likeable - I could really relate to Roscharch and Dan.
The film had a few great scenes, some excellent fights and a gripping finale. I loved the main characters, and the plot was engaging. That saying, there was a lot I didn't like and I didn't feel the film, overall, was that amazing. Mostly I think it was over-hyped; I had always heard that you couldn't write about superheroes unless you read Watchmen. It was groundbreaking, and awesome, and did everything with supers that could be done... I think the hype is the final nail in the coffin.
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Quick! Competition! Vote for your favourite comic scripts
http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?showtopic=90564&st=20
It's not clicky, though, sorry
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3/20/2009, 12:57 am
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David Meadows
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
quote:
Reythia wrote:
1.) As Meadows said, "it has a set of unlikeable, uncharismatic, psychologially-scarred characters." Now, the main characters were very INTERESTING, don't get me wrong. But when not a one of them was likable, it made it hard for me to care about any of them. Which made the movie lack meaning, to me.
Somebody made an interesting comment on another forum about that. The comic devotes a lot of time to "civilian" characters. The psychiatrist who interviews Rorschach gets a whole home life. The street news vendor (who you see very briefly near the end of the movie) and his string of customers provide a "human" commentary on the action. The staff of New Frontiersman (who you see briefly right at the end of the movie) give another point of view. It's all this that gives the comic its dense narrative form, as everybody has something different to say about what is going on. And of course it is all this that the film cut, because it's not important to the central plot.
But the comment made was that you need these characters because they are the "sympathetic" faces who give the ending its emotional punch. Although you see the fate of the news vendor in the film (he's on screen for about 3 seconds), you don't care because you haven't got to know him. And without caring about him, you don't have any reason to care about the ending. The only characters you can care about are the masked ones, and they are hard to sympathise with.
The word is that much of this will be put back in for the delux 3 /12 hour director's cut DVD.
And I agree with Blitzen: Dan (Niteowl) *is* a sympathetic character and the actor really made me care about him. You can really feel his impotence and frustration. And although Rorschach isn't likeable (he has a kind of horrible fascination, but he's not the sort of person you can care about), I was surprised to find that his final scene had a huge emotional impact for me (especially bearing in mind that I knew word-for-word what would happen).
quote:
2.) The external society was unrealistic. I realize that this is a comic book story. Obviously, not everything is realistic! On the other hand, the way it was written (the comic, too, I'm told) is supposed to be a realistic alternate history, correct? So then, why aren't there any non-superheros who are acting responsibly and trying to change things. Let me know if the comic was different, but in the movie, the only non-superheros we see are semi-bad-guys. They're okay with blowing up the world. They don't like the idea of masked "heros", but they also make no attempt at stopping them. What happened to the rest of the police? Why didn't anyone try to stop, say, the Comedian's random murders? Basically, while I found the superhero group interesting and more-or-less realistic, I found the rest of society to be completely fake and flat. And since a large portion of the plot revolved around the reaction of the general public, that made the plot feel flat and unrealistic as well.
The police aren't trying to stop the Comedian because he's working for the government! You do see the police investigating his murder at the start. You see the police chasing Rorschach (this gets more attention in the comic) and of course they eventually do stop him. You hear about the "Keene Act" (in flashback) which was the law enacted in the 70s to outlaw masked vigilantes. "Badges not masks!" chant the mob in one of the flashback riot scenes. Nobody (not the authorities nor most of the general public) actually *likes* these uncontrolled vigilantes. The only masked vigilante who came out of it smelling of roses is Veidt, who (being a PR genius) gained public trust by voluntarily unmasking and then launched his own line of action figures!
Hmm. If you missed the references to the Keene act and how it fundamentally affected every character (each in a different way), I can see how 90% of the movie might seem incomprehensibly stupid.
I think Watchmen does deal quite realistically with how a real society would react to masked vigilantes (that was one of the main aims of the comic!) but perhaps it doesn't come across well in the movie.
quote:
Oh, also, my final complaint. I realize that Dr. Manhattan was often shown nude in the comics, but REALLY, despite that, I did NOT need to see his junk hanging out all the time. Sorry, guys, but it's just not that attractive!
I was expecting it to be a huge source of shock and/or amusement in the cinema (was expecting a collective *gasp* at any rate). But oddly enough, nobody in the cinema noticably reacted. I was also expecting to be hypnotically focused on his, er, bits, every time they were on screen, but after the initial appearence I stopped even noticing it. It just wasn't a big deal.
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Frank Zappa
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3/20/2009, 11:19 am
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Reythia
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
quote:
David Meadows wrote:
And I agree with Blitzen: Dan (Niteowl) *is* a sympathetic character and the actor really made me care about him. You can really feel his impotence and frustration. And although Rorschach isn't likeable (he has a kind of horrible fascination, but he's not the sort of person you can care about), I was surprised to find that his final scene had a huge emotional impact for me (especially bearing in mind that I knew word-for-word what would happen).
I agree. These were the only two characters I found in any way likable.
quote:
If you missed the references to the Keene act and how it fundamentally affected every character (each in a different way), I can see how 90% of the movie might seem incomprehensibly stupid.
No, I caught the reference (though not the name of the act). Here's the thing, though. These "masked avengers" are supposed to be ordinary humans, right? Not supermen, correct? Then, if one of them repeatedly does something illegal -- like blowing the heads of non-violent protesters, say, or shooting an innocent woman in a bar -- why wouldn't others in the government/police/military take them down? I don't see why there would even BE a protest, since in the real world, anyone who repeatedly did such acts in such an open way would be held accountable in some way. Think about it: if a policeman walked down the street today and blew some guy's brains out, wouldn't he be held on charges, his crime looked into? I just can't see why this wouldn't happen for the "masked avengers". Where's the SWAT team, or the rest of the cops?
quote:
I was expecting it to be a huge source of shock and/or amusement in the cinema (was expecting a collective *gasp* at any rate). But oddly enough, nobody in the cinema noticably reacted. I was also expecting to be hypnotically focused on his, er, bits, every time they were on screen, but after the initial appearence I stopped even noticing it. It just wasn't a big deal.
Well, I knew it was coming. And it was well done in the sense that it wasn't a showstopper. But I also thought it was simply unnecessary. *shrug* Then again, there was a lot of gratuitous violence and some very gratuitous sex in the movie, too, which I would have taken out, had I been in charge.
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3/20/2009, 7:21 pm
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William RainCrow
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Re: Watchmen - an apology
I saw it for the second time last night. I enjoy it immensely! I admit I never saw the comic, I'm hoping to find it and read it, and I'll get the DVD when it comes out! I actually never saw much hype about it either. I'm just a sucker for any "comic book" movie that comes out!
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4/19/2009, 2:50 pm
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