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Reythia
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UAVs in populated areas


I just had an interesting thought sent my way by a colleague. Roberto used to work as an Army scientist and has had a flight license for ages. The topic that prompted the thought was this:

Earth Science via Military Hawks

Basically, it suggests letting science centers do airborne research using unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). Now, Roberto works on airborne LIDAR missions -- mapping the Earth from a plane using lasers. His comment was:
quote:

"Global Hawk looks cool, but problem is getting the FAA to allow UAVs to share airspace with general and commercial aviation.

Homeland Security is flying a UAV along US-Mex border in Arizona, but FAA has created a TFR (temporary flight restricted area) to keep other aircraft out of the area. Some police departments want to fly UAVs for surveillance, but FAA has said,'no'. Currently FAA does not allow UAVs to fly over urban areas.

Pilots have to see and be seen, and talk to each other to avoid problems"


Okay, that makes sense. If there are a lot of pirvately-owned and commercial planes flying around, you really don't want to have stealthy little UAVs zipping all over the place. Eventually there's going to be an accident.

And then I thought, "Hey... Why don't they have accidents from things like this in scifi books ever?" I mean, whether its aircraft or spacecraft, if there are a lot of things zipping around near each other, at some point something's going to accidentally collide. Yet you don't hear anything about an FAA making rules for safe air/space travel.

I know, I know. Going over FAA guidelines does NOT make for an intereting page-turner. I agree. But I think that I, at least, will keep it in mind as part of the setting when I write my next realistic scifi piece involving aircraft.

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5/16/2008, 9:47 pm Send Email to Reythia   Send PM to Reythia AIM MSN
 
David Meadows
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Re: UAVs in populated areas


Tom Ligon wrote a brilliant novelette called Amateurs a few years ago, about a bunch of engineers building their own SSTO lifting body.

The whole story is one mass of engineering jargon as they work out all the construction problems they encounter. (Nothing happens in the story, it's just engineers talking. Probably the sort of thing that only appeals to Analog subscribers.)

One section reads:

quote:

Then the problems started. No way was the FAA going to let us test a rocket plane. NASA just laughed and handed us a bunch of test requirements that would have cost a hundred million dollars to comply with. ... We looked into moving to another country but the cost was out of our reach.



After much frustration:

quote:

Jake led me to the crew hatch, above which was stencilled "EXPERIMENTAL SPACE ROCKET - DANGEROPUS AS HELL." The aircraft dataplate from the Learjet was attached to the frame.
"You've heard of outfits that build an airplane around a dataplate? That's basically what we've done. That's the tail number of the original Lear."
I shook my head. "That can't be legal."
Jake grinned. "Sure cuts down questions when you file a flight plan, though."



Then the conversation with the air traffic controller during the test flight:

quote:

"Lear 4 Papa Whiskey, radar contact over Loomis ,approved on course as filed. Clear above, climb to flight level 600 at your discretion. Flight level 600??! Uh, what model of Lear is that?"
"I'd like to climb pretty quick. You sure it's clear above us?"
"Four Papa Whiskey, Centre," the controller answered testily, "nobody above you for two hundred miles in any direction. You could take off straight up if you wanted."
"Straight up? That sounds like fun. Think I will."
At that point, Gore opened the throttle and showed the controller just how special his little business jet was. Dervish pitched up and accelerated for the sky like, well, a rocket. In eighty seconds, it had passed its assigned altitude.
"Centre, orbital rocket 214 Papa Whiskey is now clear of your airspace. Maybe you could call NORAD and and let then know a crazy bunch of amateur rocket scientists has just launched a manned flight southwest from the Pacific Northwest for a retrograde orbit. I'll give Hawaii a buzz in about sixteen minutes and be back with you in about an hour and a half."
I will not print the controller's reply, in the interests of his continued employment.




Well, anyway, you get the point. If you want to write real-world "hard" SF, you need to know more about the real world than you do about science fiction! I would love to write like that but I just don't have the knowledge. Ligon is an aerospace consultant and can get away with it. If you try to bluff it, the educated layman (i.e. most SF readers) will probably sniff it out pretty quickly and you lose their trust in the story.




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5/17/2008, 11:09 am Send Email to David Meadows   Send PM to David Meadows
 
Reythia
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Re: UAVs in populated areas


I have GOT to find this story! I need to read it and then show it to all my friends at work. That's just awesome!

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5/17/2008, 7:38 pm Send Email to Reythia   Send PM to Reythia AIM MSN
 
QS2
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That does sound pretty amusing, yeah. emoticon
5/19/2008, 11:09 am  
 
Blitzen
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Re: UAVs in populated areas


I thought the FAA was maybe harder than whatever we have in Britain because I read a few years ago about how Manchester Police had a UAV with CCTV.

I googled it and found nothing on Manchester, but I did find this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5051142.stm

My computer won't let me make that clicky.

I think the UAVs fly under the height of aeroplanes and that. Maybe.


Made the link clickable.

Last edited by Firlefanz, 6/3/2008, 7:45 pm


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It's not clicky, though, sorry
6/3/2008, 7:36 pm Send Email to Blitzen   Send PM to Blitzen
 
Tom Ligon
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Re: UAVs in populated areas


Better late than never?

Tom Ligon checking in. Thanks for the kind words about "Amateurs", although it was not about UAVs (Dervish did have a pretty good autopilot to allow it to be crashed at a designated point).

The FAA invited me to speak at a commercial space transportation conference in February 2008. It turned out, when "Amateurs" appeared, they were already working to make that sort of thing possible. Turns out I have a couple of fans there! They're actively working to set reasonable rules for things like Space Ship One, Virgin Galactic,

But, since writing that story, I took a job at Athena Technologies, a UAV controls company that very much wants to create circumstances that allow UAVs to operate in civilian airspace. The only good argument against it is UAVs are limited in "see and avoid" capability, which would not matter much if they operate in controlled airspace, working with air traffic control.

If anyone is interested in a copy of "Amateurs", I think I have a few spare copies I might be coaxed to part with. I can be contacted via tomligon.com.
6/18/2009, 11:41 pm  
 
Reythia
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Re: UAVs in populated areas


Greetings, Tom!

How on Earth did you run across our little discussion about your story? Not that I'm sorry you did, of course! And I'll give you a poke via email about the story itself once I get home -- I'm off at work now.

Welcome!

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6/19/2009, 3:08 am Send Email to Reythia   Send PM to Reythia AIM MSN
 
QS2
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Re: UAVs in populated areas


Moved this thread to Future Worlds because I figure this hardly constitutes fantasy. emoticon

Guess it ended up in the wrong category by accident.
6/19/2009, 7:49 am  
 
David Meadows
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How weird is that coincidence? I mention Mr. Ligon's experimental-rocket story in response to a post about UAVs, and now he's working with UAVs! I must have amazing psychic powers...

Jenni, I guarantee that you will love Amateurs. It's a perfect match for your interests.



---
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6/19/2009, 8:41 am Send Email to David Meadows   Send PM to David Meadows
 
Tom Ligon
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How does one find anything on the internet? Google, of course! I just set up that website and was checking to see if the searchbots had noticed it yet. The UAV connection was too amazing to pass up.

And just know the site is hand-coded HTML, three days old, and only half-working. My apologies in advance. You'll be beta-testing my very crude "contact me" feature.
6/19/2009, 12:57 pm  
 
QS2
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So the search bot in the end sent you to a writers board talking about one of your works. Yeah, would be to hard to find that just by yourself, that would have been some coincidence. emoticon
6/19/2009, 8:27 pm  
 
BaneBlade
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Re: UAVs in populated areas


quote:

Tom Ligon wrote:

Better late than never?

Tom Ligon checking in. Thanks for the kind words about "Amateurs", although it was not about UAVs (Dervish did have a pretty good autopilot to allow it to be crashed at a designated point).

The FAA invited me to speak at a commercial space transportation conference in February 2008. It turned out, when "Amateurs" appeared, they were already working to make that sort of thing possible. Turns out I have a couple of fans there! They're actively working to set reasonable rules for things like Space Ship One, Virgin Galactic,

But, since writing that story, I took a job at Athena Technologies, a UAV controls company that very much wants to create circumstances that allow UAVs to operate in civilian airspace. The only good argument against it is UAVs are limited in "see and avoid" capability, which would not matter much if they operate in controlled airspace, working with air traffic control.

If anyone is interested in a copy of "Amateurs", I think I have a few spare copies I might be coaxed to part with. I can be contacted via tomligon.com.



Tom, welcome to our little corner of the net. Would you mind stopping by the Meeting Point and posting a brief introduction? I hate to be such a "fuddy duddy" but we've recently gotten on several posters for not doing so, and I wouldn't want to be accused of playing favorites. A brief intro is fine.

Again welcome to the board-hope you enjoy it.

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6/22/2009, 7:53 pm Send Email to BaneBlade   Send PM to BaneBlade
 


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