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XKCD on SETI

Reythia
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XKCD on SETI

An excellent comic. I like how it subtly reminds us that all of our seemingly-extensive searches may be (A) the wrong type of search, and (B) simply not going far enough.

XKCD: "The Search"

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9/19/2009, 8:43 pm

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Corvus

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Re: XKCD on SETI

I feel vindicated.

9/21/2009, 12:22 am

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Firlefanz
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Re: XKCD on SETI

It's very neat.

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Hannah Steenbock
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9/21/2009, 6:32 am

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QS2
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Re: XKCD on SETI

It's cute, but totally ignores the Fermi Paradox.

9/21/2009, 9:04 pm

Reythia
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Re: XKCD on SETI

That's the one that asks why, if the universe is so big, we haven't heard any alien signals, right?

I think this comic sort of DOES (obliquely) pose an answer. This is how I translate it:

Yes, there are a lot of stars and planets, the universe is very old, and possibly life forms may exist both right now and for millions of years in the past. BUT, what if we can't recognize that life because WE are too limited?

What if the place we're looking in is an even smaller part of the whole than we currently believe? (Ie: we've searched dozens of floor tiles, but there are many, many kitchens which we can't see or maybe even comprehend.)

Or else, what if we're looking in the right spot, but we're looking in the wrong way -- using methods which most other species don't think are intuitive? (Ie: we're using pheromones, the most obvious way for ants to communicate, but a method which is almost totally unused by humans. Additionally, human ways of communication are almost unknown to us ants.)

I think these are very practical answers to any of the "paradoxes" that ask why we haven't found alien life yet. We live in a tiny area of a single galaxy -- and we're far from the crowded reaches of the center of that galaxy. Additionally, our galaxy is one of only a small clump of others, not in one of the big super-structures where galaxies are more likely to be near many other galaxies. We've only "explored" a fraction of our night skies, and those not in any great detail.

Additionally, what "exploring" we've done has all been over a very short period of time. Call it a few thousand years, maximum, a few hundred with any sort of telescopes, and only a few tens of years since we've understood enough about electromagnetism to even consider SETI. In a 13.2 billion-year-old galaxy, 50 years isn't very long. If there's a species out there that broadcasts a signal around the galaxy at a frequency of more than 100 years, there's no chance we could have received their message.

But most critically, in my opinion, is the "pheromone" argument. We're searching largely by radio waves, because we think those are the most logical way to send a message across the vastness of space. But what if us doing that is like the ants sending us a message in pheromones? What if most other races (or at least the ones within ~50 lightyears of Earth) don't look at radio as a useful tool? Our judgment on the question of what way is best to attract attention is a HUMAN judgment. It has to be, of course, but that doesn't mean that all other species will see the issue in the same light. Pheromones make more sense than speech or writing, after all --if you're an ant.

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-- YAR!

9/21/2009, 9:42 pm

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Corvus

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Re: XKCD on SETI

Didn't we cover this in another thread at some point? I seem to recall laying out my "we shouldn't waste our time listening for radio signals because the aliens probably aren't using radio to talk to each other" argument a long time ago...

Aha, here we are. Discussing Fermi and Drake.

Last edited by Corvus, 9/22/2009, 8:59 am

9/22/2009, 8:56 am

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Reythia
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Re: XKCD on SETI

Ah, yes, that's right.

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9/22/2009, 3:54 pm

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Corvus

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Re: XKCD on SETI

I think it's a worthwhile topic. I find myself wishing there were some way to reach more "important" people to see what they have to say about it (Phil Plait, Neil deGrasse Tyson, etc.)

9/22/2009, 5:55 pm

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QS2
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Re: XKCD on SETI

Actually that isn't what Fermi's paradox is about, though many people confuse it like that due to SETI. Fermi's Paradox is the question of where the aliens are, not just in the sense of why we can't see them though. It is also in the sense of, why aren't they here right now.

The reason for that is, that even assuming technology barely progresses beyond current norms and we never find anything better then nuclear fission and even using very conservative predictions indeed. That it should be possible for any civilization to colonize the entire galaxy within a billion years. Sure maybe most won't do that, but you'd only need one really after all. If just one had did that, we wouldn't even be here, because this would be one of their worlds, or maybe they'd just take it apart for raw materials...

Obviously this isn't the case, leading us to the question, why aren't they here? Where are they? Obviously we are failing to understand something, either be that aliens are far more scarce then we thought, or that there is some rather pressing reason why you don't want to colonize the galaxy. And by pressing we should probably think lethal, because I figure some species probably wouldn't be deterred by anything less.

Perhaps something entirely else is the reason though, but whatever the reason is. There is no large amount of evidence for any particular theory right now, so we don't really know, beyond that we can't find them.

9/22/2009, 9:53 pm

Reythia
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Re: XKCD on SETI

That's a really good explanation, QS2. Now that you say it, I have heard that logic, though I don't know if I ever had Fermi's name attached to it.

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9/23/2009, 3:32 pm

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Reythia
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Re: XKCD on SETI

Another classic XKCD today:

XKCD: "Bag Check"

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-- YAR!

10/19/2009, 4:00 pm

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QS2
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Re: XKCD on SETI

Did you know that if you hover your mouse over the picture, you'll get further commentary? Those are some times quite amusing in their own right. emoticon