Firlefanz
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Kings and Queens
Do you have them? Or would you prefer fantasy settings without them?
--- - Firlefanz
Reading: "Unser Kosmos" by Carl Sagan
Writing: Rewrite of the Unicorn Girl YA novel
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7/31/2006, 5:15 pm
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QS2
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Registered: 03-2006
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Re: Kings and Queens
I don't know, but they are fairly standard fair in fantasy, having increased differentation in this might be nice. 
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7/31/2006, 6:33 pm
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naca
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Re: Kings and Queens
I prefer consuls, tribunals, chiefs ect... something a little different. Though I do have a king or a queen somewhere.
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Currently Writing: Daughter of Rage (YA fantasy)
Currently Reading: Winter's Heart by Robert Jordan
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7/31/2006, 10:55 pm
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JessieLong
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Re: Kings and Queens
Always, of course.
<Scion> DUH.
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Reading: Mostly comic books...
Writing : Electric Ladythief
Backburner: Scion and Ratface; The Rose and the Sword (books); Seekers (comic book series)
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8/1/2006, 5:32 am
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David Meadows
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Re: Kings and Queens
Has there ever been a pre-industrial civilization that didn't have a king and queen (or some synonym meaning the same thing)?
Ok... Athens. But I'm not counting Rome because they couldn't make it work and went back to absolute monarchy.
One state in all of recorded history. Any advance on that...?
It tends to suggest it's the only system that really works.
Yes, I know this is fantasy and you don't have to base it on historical reality, but as Corvus said you do have to work harder to explain a different structure.
---
"Some who have read the book have found it boring, absurd, or contemptible; and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kind of writing that they evidently prefer." -- J. R. R. Tolkien
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8/1/2006, 11:21 am
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JessieLong
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Re: Kings and Queens
There are elements you just cannot skip. The damsel in distress is always blonde. The stolen jewel is always a necklace. The detective's aidee is always bumbling. There will always be kings and queens.
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Reading: Mostly comic books...
Writing : Electric Ladythief
Backburner: Scion and Ratface; The Rose and the Sword (books); Seekers (comic book series)
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8/1/2006, 12:08 pm
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QS2
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Re: Kings and Queens
You do realise that Rome did it make it work, right? The Roman Republic stood for 600 years which is quite good for a state really.
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8/1/2006, 1:05 pm
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David Meadows
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Re: Kings and Queens
Ok, I admit that 600 years was a pretty good run...
---
"Some who have read the book have found it boring, absurd, or contemptible; and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kind of writing that they evidently prefer." -- J. R. R. Tolkien
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8/1/2006, 1:11 pm
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Loud G
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Location: Maryland, USA
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Re: Kings and Queens
There have always been kings, in one form or another.
Heck, there still ARE kings, queens, emperors, sultans, etc even today.
The leader of a group is usually married, though their wife doesn't always have queenly status they are usually powerful in their own right. Call it a chieftain, call it Thug the Overlord. It is basically the same office, with the same duties. It just happens that in some places they elect their kings and in some places they are hereditary.
--- Reading: Mistborn
Writing: Eriadhin
"Life is like a book, except it takes longer to get to the climax."
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8/1/2006, 2:41 pm
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mspatric
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Registered: 10-2003
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Re: Kings and Queens
quote:
David Meadows wrote:
Has there ever been a pre-industrial civilization that didn't have a king and queen (or some synonym meaning the same thing)?
It tends to suggest it's the only system that really works.
Barring the fact that the level of power between queens and kings throughout history and cultures varied immensely, the answer is YES, David. There have been many pre-industrial civilizations that didn't have kings and queens. The chieftain's of many nomadic tribes, for example, were not kings by another name. There tenure and power was quite different, and often not hereditary or "chosen" by the gods. To simply say that any ruler is a king or queen with a differnt name is to grossly misunderstand the numerous cultures that comprise humanity.
I personally don't shy away from kings and queens and nobility in general, though. I do, however, use them much as they were used throughout history. As symbols to unite the people, if not complete figureheads for the real men in charge. Even the Pope was not always as powerful as people think. He was often nothing more than a puppet.
Kings and queens are quite useful as cultural icons to help solidify cultures. That's pretty much their use in my world, though I will admit that I'm not trying to create a "normal" fantasy setting. Normal is boring. After all, I started writing BECAUSE I don't care for normal fantasy.
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12/24/2006, 11:48 pm
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QS2
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Re: Kings and Queens
I should also mention that it is known that many historic societies were not ruled by a single person but were for instance oligarchies. (ruled by an elite class) And for instance Athens was not by far the only Greek democratic state, there were many others, including I believe Syracruse in Scisily. Most likely more examples could be found for other places as well, however I will admit that autocratic type states were fairly common back then.
PS Even when the Roman Republic fell, it was not replaced by a monarchy during the empire. The emperors were chosen either by the former emperor based on whatever criteria he saw fit or oftently enough simply taken by whoever could arrange the political and military might to get it. Which is a relatively Meritocratic system really and perhaps explains how the East Roman empire, ie Byzantine Empire, managed to survive until the late 15th century a thousand years after the fall of the West Roman empire. Overall pretty impressive really for a large nation.
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12/27/2006, 10:46 pm
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