Blitzen
Grand Master
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Registered: 12-2004
Location: falkirk
Posts: 230
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Psychics
I've been thinking about psychics, and about thinking.
Let's go with thinking first.
Okay: so I'm thinking about the words I'm typing. Now these words aren't appearing in written form inside my head, its more like I'm hearing them. But I'm a very word orientated person. I can also think in pictures.
Now I'm thinking of a horse. You try it. Don't look at a horse, just picture one in your head.
People can think in pictures, too.
I'm not really thinking about the letters I'm physically pressing on the keyboard, though. I'll call this shallow subconscious. Some people have to think about it.
I'm not thinking about breathing. I do that anyway, I only have to think when I don't want to. eg for swimming. I'll call this deep subconscious.
Lets now apply this these ideas about thinking to psychics.
Our fictional psychic (Adam) goes to see Ben and needs to break into the dark lords fortress. Ben is a guard there.
"I'll never tell you." He said, thinking: ha, he'll never find out the code for the keypad on the backdoor is 1234. This is thte route most fantasies take.
"I'll never tell you," he said, thinking: ha, gret froe sepuka bonge.
(Here's a question for Firle; even when talking in English, do you think in German?)
There is no reason to assume the enemy will talk the same language as your psychic, and if they don't will Adam still understand Ben?
Now images transcend language, but if all your getting is an image of the keypad, how will Adam discover the code?
Finally, our subconscious thoughts.
If something is learned, you have to pay attention to it whilst doing it, but once it is learned you can do it without thinking. Such skills are as diverse as typing, sword fighting, walking, talking. A psychic should be able to confuse you, but never to take over these skills completely. It doesn't make sense that they could.
Deep subconscious thoughts are my last point. Wouldn't it be really nasty if a psychic suddenly held your breath. You'd be suffocated, and then it would make sense for him to do his big villain "I'm so cool" speech scene because, hey, as far as he's concerned you're dying anyway.
These are just things I've been thinking about. Weird, huh?
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12/14/2007, 11:30 pm
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QS2
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Registered: 03-2006
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Re: Psychics
I don't know about weird, still like Firlefanz I speak several languages and one thing I've noticed with myself is, is that I don't tend to start thinking in a language. Instead I have thoughts and then only when I wish to present them or make them more concrete, do I try to catch them in images or words or something else.
Due to this, I've sometimes shifted in language in my thoughts as the one or other language became less adequate or I just couldn't think at that moment of the particular word I needed.
Hmm, what I mean is something like.. when you have that sensation where you feel like you have a word at tip of your tongue, but just can't quite recall what it is.
In those cases you know what you know what you want to say, you just can't put it in words or even perse in images or anything else. I've always found that somewhat frustrating, but sometimes in such cases I can recall the word in another language, it is kind of odd though to move to another language to solidify your thoughts though... So anyway, these are just some loose thoughts of mine on this.
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12/15/2007, 6:56 am
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Firlefanz
Lady of the Land
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Registered: 05-2003
Location: Germany
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Re: Psychics
When I write in English, I also think in English. Same for German, when I write it, I think in it. I wish I could do the same for Spanish, but I'm so out of practice that I have to resort to translating my thoughts from either German or English when I want to say anything in Spanish.
Thinking and writing in the same language usually works fine, but I'm also familiar with what QS describes - all of a sudden, a word in the language I'm NOT using at the moment seems much more fitting than anything I can think of in the language I am using at that moment. Those things can drive me to distraction.
I believe psychologists are still debating whether we can think without words. Obviously, all of us did so before we learned words, but it's hard to go back there for most of us.
Interesting thoughts, Blitzen. Thanks for sharing them. 
--- - Firlefanz
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12/15/2007, 5:10 pm
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dragonlady
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Registered: 04-2003
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Re: Psychics
I find it quite interesting that people can sort of lose their native language.
As a monolinguistic person who's never been immersed in a foreign culture I find it hard to imagine personally, but I have seen it happen.
My parents had an Austrian girl stay with them for about a year. When she arrived she already spoke very good English. She spent months living with an English family and going to an English college. When she went back over Easter she said that she couldn't speak German properly anymore; she kept forgetting words and thinking of the English ones instead.
I found that quite interesting, it makes sense though cos you can lose secondary languages quite quickly if you don't practice them and never hear them. It must be the same with your primary one, it's just that it's embedded deeper.
I'm now relying on this process in a story I'm writing which has German characters who've been living in England.
I've also heard that you can tell you've grasped a language when you start dreaming in it. I think that means if you can clearly identify words or speech in that language. Not if people are speaking something that sounds like it but isn't understandable to you.
The idea of, not so much psychics as telepaths (like Professor X), freaks me out and has done for a while. Cos, I don't know about anyone else, I think such random things all the time. Quite often I'll think something and it's unpleasant or gross or mean or upsetting or just really strange. It'll only flash through my head but I think to myself that it's very good no one can know about it. Because i'd hate to be judged based on random thoughts.
That's why I hope psychics/telepaths don't exist, although if they do I suppose they must be used to all sorts of weirdness.
---
"Why sometimes I've believed as many as 6 impossible things before breakfast" -- Red Queen, Lewis Carrol
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12/15/2007, 6:12 pm
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Reythia
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Registered: 11-2005
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Re: Psychics
quote:
Blitzen wrote:
Now I'm thinking of a horse. You try it. Don't look at a horse, just picture one in your head.
Actually, I can't. I know, I'm crazy. I was reading some fantasy book a long time ago that was talking about teaching a girl magic. One of the lessons they assigned her was to look at an image, then close her eyes and try to envision it for as long as she could (to improve discipline and concentration, or something). Anyhow, I was curious, so I tried doing it. I started with something complex, and couldn't do it. So I tried easier and easier images. Eventually I tried to make myself think of a plain, yellow circle. I couldn't do it. I still can't. The second I concentrate on it -- the second I realize the image is there -- it changes. The color, the shape, the size... something about it changes. (Is my mind quantum mechanical? Can I not knowingly observe its actions?)
Anyhow, I found that I can envision actions -- changes -- but not still shots. So if I was the guard at that door, it wouldn't matter what language I spoke or thought in, because the telepath would see my mind pushing the buttons in the right order.
As a side note, I'm fairly certain that my inability to keep still images in my mind -- and also my tendency not to think in words, unless I'm actively reading or writing -- are related to the fact that I'm a strong physical learner. Of course, which was cause and which effect, I couldn't tell you.
So here's my question to you guys: how many of you can picture a solid, stable, yellow circle on a black backdrop? How long can you hold it before it changes?
---  -- YAR! |
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1/7/2008, 10:53 pm
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QS2
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Registered: 03-2006
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Re: Psychics
I'm not sure I'm meeting your standards for it, but I seem to be able to visualize it for at least a few seconds, I haven't really tried longer.
I wonder what this means though, perhaps that depending on ability and what we've been busy with through our lives helps us to do things for better or worse.
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1/8/2008, 11:19 pm
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Reythia
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Registered: 11-2005
Posts: 500
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Re: Psychics
quote:
QS2 wrote:
I wonder what this means though, perhaps that depending on ability and what we've been busy with through our lives helps us to do things for better or worse.
Probably. I suspect it's just a skill that some people are better at than others and which, like many others skills, can be improved slowly with time and effort, even if you're naturally bad at it.
I'll accept a failing grade in this skill, given that I ace any sort of spatial relations task. That's more useful for what I do, anyhow. (Of course, one might wonder whether I chose the studies I'm in based on my strengths or whether my strengths were learned from the studies I chose!)
--- -- YAR! |
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1/9/2008, 12:25 am
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