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DeMarie57
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Re: Not sure where to start. . .
quote:
Daffodil66 wrote:
Well said DeMarie!
Thanks, Daffodil!
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DeMarie57
True healing
involves body, mind and Spirit.
~ © Alison Stormwolf ~
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Feb/19/2009, 11:12 am
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CreatureFeat
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Re: Not sure where to start. . .
I figure that I'd achieve exactly the same, make people either for or against, I'm not sure whether that would be a good thing or not right now, but oh how I'd like to do it.
There is one thing I've been wondering about, one of the consistant themes in the N's griefing to me is to stop me from expressing anger, (e.g. winding me up beyond belief, as they do, then when I raise my voice slightly, telling me I need anger management/they can't talk to me because I'm so angry etc), but I've noticed that now I live away, that this kind of control can't be excercised as well because there is nothing they can do to "make me pay" so to speak (although, on occasions when I needed financial info for benefit of sick relative this tactic did rear it's ugly head) anyhow, I've noticed that when I do actually approach losing my rag N backs right off, goes silent (!?!?) (another thing that has actually stopped the N activity is when I pointed out that the law might already be looking into the N's affairs, and perhaps they could better spend their time addressing this than doing what they were doing). It seems that the N is actually afraid of me blowing my top, also that she is afraid of getting exposed for being "bad" is this inconsistant with NPD? I have a theory that as most N's are male whilst in my case not, could it be that "my" N actually thinks they're in danger of me attacking them and is scared because I'm physically capable of doing it? I wouldn't, I'm not violent and I DESPISE people who are violent towards women and the N must know this being my mother, on the other hand I'm told I can appear quite intimidating when I'm getting angry. Or perhaps the N just isn't used to failing to prevent me expressing anger? I assumed the N knows me quite well, (although I've been keeping info from her for ten years at advice of a counsellor) and only pretended to think i was an anger risk but if she believes she's in physical danger from me, then this is an instance where she doesn't know me that well. What's your opinion on this?
Sheesh we've made quite a thread haven't we?
CF
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Why can't we just place them in a vacuum?
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Feb/19/2009, 1:19 pm
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Daffodil66
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Re: Not sure where to start. . .
Hi Creature
I do know exactly how you feel about wanting to set the record straight. It's so hurtful and upsetting when you hear things which the N has told others either about you or about things you are supposed to have said or done, which of course you hadn't! I have gone through so many days in the past when I wanted to shout from the rooftops all about how the N really was, but I stopped myself and made sure I didn't, my N is so clever, the smear campaign against me was so thorough, I'm sure few would have believed me anyway. I have spent many months recovering and have had good days and bad, but really time does heal.
My mom hasn't carried out any physical acts of harm towards me, it's more comments or mentioning the N and really playing on my emotions. She has said some very mean and hurtful things though which have struck me very deeply. She also believes that I am the one at fault for going NC with sibling and sees me as being a very difficult individual. I have come to accept this, cos really life is so much better now. My mom will just never see the N how they really are.
I really hope things get better for you, for me, reading this site and books recommended really helped, especially with getting my self-esteem back and supporting my belief that I really wasnt' crazy! lol
Good luck Creature, take care
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Feb/19/2009, 1:57 pm
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zlata2614
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Re: Not sure where to start. . .
Hi CreatureFeat,
Believe me you are not alone, My mother is a perfect N, exactly what you have been describing, hey, we seem to get the 25% which are women N's.I don't know how different they are toward a son or a daughter, my impression is that they are hard on first born, I am first born female, and my younger brother is just oblivious what is he actually spinning in.
I have been NC for 2,5 years, a great decision, however I went trough stages as I " ripen" to get there.
First, diagnosing them. I find it was a success to be able to figure it out myself, and I did pass the info to NM physician and social worker who was involved while my father went trough assessment for Alzheirmer's.Expecting them to cooperate is waste of YOUR energy and time,and they will label YOU crazy much sooner than they will ever let themselves be evaluated.
The best strategy I had was, being very indifferent and calm while with NM. They of course want to get "you going', so want to get you angry, upset, and then say why are you angry, which just brings more anger and even rage. As they see it THEY are in control, and you are in a jam, having to figure out how to work with all the reactions you are feeling toward NM. So, take a step back, no reaction, just indifference, and they ask why are you so quiet, don't you have anything to say? I was just calm, almost like zombie state,whenever with her, ( in last few years), now I would go, I don't know,how come you don't know, she would try, I use d to just shred shoulders, and have no opinion , boy I could see NM, agitated and on the verge of calling me something,and I would just chuckle inside.She didn't stop easily, would prey and prey, ask is there a problem, how come I changed , blah, blah, I would just look indifferent. Boy, I never had a joint in my life but I believe I was able to bring up that "I couldn't care less" attitude for free! Now NM as she thought she knew me, she would get puzzled and try the bribe technique, come to my home, I made a cake, do you want me to pay for the gas, heck NO, I would refuse, and NM was getting more and more dumb founded, and I was getting ready to DUMP HER! So, as she pulled her last stunt, I just let her do ALL the talking, and then Ijust walked away,while I still called their place four times a week to pick up my father, and while she used the opportunity to try to talk to me. I would just say no, not now, I have to go, and hang up. she tried and tried and I just stayed clear.I have to admit there things I can just spit out to that woman,get it off my chest, hurt, humiliation, anger, however knowing what she is, I know word by word what the scenario would be. I found that dreams can help, we can do all we can and say in our dreams, and I had an opportunity few times, and it was a relief.
One more thing, boy do N's want to meddle in a relationship, any way to spoil your happiness. My has a special charm, however my hubby doesn't take any bates. So guard your relationship as much as you can and away from NM.
Good luck to you, regards, Zlata
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Feb/20/2009, 8:30 am
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CreatureFeat
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Re: Not sure where to start. . .
I think I'm lucky in the respect that nobody, at least at the moment, seems to blame me for going NC, and I'm sorry that you're getting that from your mom, Daffodil, at the end of the day, even if there isn't N behaviour (which we know there is) it's up to you who you spend time with. I do run into this kind of situation, where my sibling sees me as the difficult one, and I can accept that I probably do antagonise the N, which upsets my sibling, but I'm the sort of guy who finds it hard to keep mouth shut when something crooked is going on, (yes, I do shout at the TV aswell!) but untill I get some help in managing this N I don't see myself being quiet!
I've got to count my blessings, it's easier fighting back against the N in defence of another, which is the only reason I break NC, (the N woman rampages around reducing care issues for this sick relative to the level of a fight between her and some carer/care authority who has contradicted her, then attempts to force her will at the cost of the relatives wellbeing) however if I'm defending myself against her I'm pretty much stuffed, nobody who knows what she's like will come to my aid! I can't accept this! I get stuck in in their defence, I find it hard not to, on the occasions I don't it's like a kind of backward "quid pro quo" (spelling?) i.e. they didn't stick up for me, so i won't stick up for them, which is horrible and makes me feel like a quitter! But, actually I'm just looking out for myself . . . and that feels like an N victory. LOL! (you have to LOL or you'd go MAD!!!)
Now that I'm forarmed with this site I'm going to warn a few key individuals in the circle of carers about this aspect of the N's behaviour, I mean, I've got too. . . if I got hit by a bus. . .
Daffodil, when you mention the self esteem thing, it's a usefull reminder, I still have doubts about my own sanity sometimes, and I shouldn't.
DeMarie57, I think that what you did with the email was remarkably brave, and you should be proud to have let those, who were suffering in silence, free. I hope you manage to forgive those who went the wrong way, (I have trouble doing that). I also love the "we can do it" picture, caught my attention a while back in a window.
I showed the N mothers bits to my girlfriend last night, it helped her understand better what was going on, I was surprised how afraid I was she wouldn't see, (I shouldn't have been, she's ace) I was also surprised at how qucikly I wanted to get away from the whole thing, I'm actually ashamed to be the guy who has this mother, I swear on my life I'd never tell a soul if I really had a choice, I mean if I could start over and never be associated with the fall out, I'd pretend none of this ever happened.
Many Thanks
CF
---
Why can't we just place them in a vacuum?
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Feb/20/2009, 9:02 am
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DeMarie57
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Re: Not sure where to start. . .
quote:
CreatureFeat wrote:
DeMarie57, I think that what you did with the email was remarkably brave, and you should be proud to have let those, who were suffering in silence, free. I hope you manage to forgive those who went the wrong way, (I have trouble doing that). I also love the "we can do it" picture, caught my attention a while back in a window.
I showed the N mothers bits to my girlfriend last night, it helped her understand better what was going on, I was surprised how afraid I was she wouldn't see, (I shouldn't have been, she's ace) I was also surprised at how qucikly I wanted to get away from the whole thing, I'm actually ashamed to be the guy who has this mother, I swear on my life I'd never tell a soul if I really had a choice, I mean if I could start over and never be associated with the fall out, I'd pretend none of this ever happened.
Many Thanks
CF
Dearest Creature,
I understand the disbelief others may have regarding N. I would not have believed her capable of the stunts she has pulled if I'd not been the one being targeted. She seems rational, very sane, very calm. very sincere...on the surface. The effort she must put into the appearance has to be exhausting! LOL I look at their disbelief as temporary. She will lose the mask and turn on them if they ever say no or disagree with her.It is kind of like watching lambs go to the slaughter!
Your shame reaction is what I went through for years with the Ndad, the PA mother and now the Nsister. It was embarrassing to admit that my family was dysfunctional to this extreme. I refuse to carry the shame that is not my own. I'm glad your lady is supportive of you! You need that validation because life with an N obliterates your self, your being. Good for her! And you!
My attempts to meet the N's rage with rage of my own were disasters. N thrives on rage. She uses this to "prove" that you are out of control. N would say she was just trying to be honest and I flew off the handle. The best defense has been indifference. The only time I've seen her this last year ( a family medical emergency), I ignored her. She was a blurred spot in my peripheral vision. When she spoke, I heard blah blah blah blah blah. I believe one of the biggest fears of the N is to not exist...to be nobody. Rage (yourr or their own) feeds them and allows them to justify their actions. Indifference sucks the life out of them. It takes back your soul and they lose their hold on you.
Hang in there, Creature! WE CAN DO IT! (I love this avatar and the message. The lady reminds me of my grandmother- a wonderful lady!)
Hugs,
DeMarie
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DeMarie57
True healing
involves body, mind and Spirit.
~ © Alison Stormwolf ~
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Feb/20/2009, 9:56 am
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femfree
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Re: Not sure where to start. . .
Hi Creaturefeat.
You wrote...
It seems that the N is actually afraid of me blowing my top, also that she is afraid of getting exposed for being "bad" is this inconsistant with NPD?
Indeed! Ns fear exposure of their bad behaviour. That's why our 'power of silence" is such an effective tool. As Dr. Vaknin stated - "Ignoring them is precisely what dirves them up the wall and exposes their behaviour." That's good news for us because the N will do something ridiculous. However, most Ns are smart enough to sit back thus, it becomes like a Mexican standoff. At this point, there's a possibility of us having a semi-normal relationship with them. Both people maintaining 'perfect' social encounters only.
Losing our cool with them is precisely what they want.
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Children? They don't want presents, they just want to see your face light up when they come in the room.
A member's quote
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Feb/20/2009, 11:12 am
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CreatureFeat
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Re: Not sure where to start. . .
First of all, I logged on briefly last night and read all that you guy's have written, and it was a good decision, you've all made me feel much better than I've felt for a long, long time. Reading your opinions and experiences has given me a lot of strength, and the confidence not to rise to it, and I feel that next time I have to confront the nightmare situation I'm not going to be alone there, I'll be able to stand there not rising to it and not feel like an idiot, because I've got all you guys there with me silently backing me up, I went to sleep with a smile and I got up this morning without a battle. Thank you.
I am puzzled about why the N backed down at the anger, thinking about it it's only been since I threatened to call the police if i didn't get things sorted out (don't want to go into details on forum but there's some funny money business) perhaps I'd just like to believe I've stopped them on my own. Thanks for the heads up Femfree, I can behave accordingly.
Zlata, regarding how they are to a son or daughter, well I'm the other way round to you, last born and male! I gather from both family and friend sources the N made my older sister like "her child" while creating rift between her and my dad,(using very N techniques, another thread in itself) then, when I was born, made me out to be "fathers favourite" Both me and my sister believed that sis was hated by dad, and that I was "lucky" however, looking at it now, sis was grandparent/s favourite as result, so, overall, I only had my Dad who didn't put me 2nd really, sis still feels bad about this and counts me as the lucky one by standard of parental affection! I do, however count myself as more lucky as I got less dragged in to the "delusion", perhaps as i saw it happen to my sis, so I guess it depends how you look at it. I did get some pretty serious malicious damage from the N, but so did my older sis, we both probably still don't know all of each other trials right now.
One thing that might be relavent to gender, my dad was painted as bad, and I was often yelled at (and, yes, for no reason) something like "You are NOT going to grow up to be like NASTY to women!!" and generally given the impression that all men were fat evil, selfish and angry and that all women, who were blameless, fragile infinitely kind beings suffered helpless by being with them. Feminist ideals was hijacked, twisted and used to this end, (pseudo-feminism as i now call it), Boy was it a shock when I discovered girls were just normal people and can also be cheating and evil!! Took me years to get it right, and I got hurt on the way, I was too clingy and treated girls like they were these blameless needy beings (DOH!) I cringe at myself now. However I still got/get treated by the Nmum, and by sis (although not recently), (sorry sis if you read this, you know I love you) as if my girlfriend needs protecting from me (often it was other way round LOL!).
As I've said before my GF is ace, we're both probably too lovey dovey for anyone else, and we've both got wierd parents, funny that.
I'm pretty good at ignoring the direct behaviour to me, it's the indirect grief i get from others I find hard to handle, there is a very distinct air people (teachers, doctors etc) adopt towards me when my N has got in there before me, in fact regarding the sick relative, it was impossible to ignore the result: Care supplier actually avoided contact with me due to the N being (very,very,very) difficult and dropping my name in association with her chaos, i had to appologise for N and say that unlike N I was actually interested in getting the issue resolved, why did she do this? I think it was a combination of the rage at the care supplier for saying no (or similar) to her and a tactic to make sure i didn't succeed where she hadn't, she also knew I was moving towards a particular task which, in course, would expose something very immorral (but not actually illegal) she had cooked up (regarding money), so I think she was hoping I would get frustrated and quit before I got there, however I didn't quit, tasks just took me three years instead of three months, and made me so mad I turned to the drink!
But thanks to this site I'm going to attempt to wrap the whole thing up for good, if I can get the key figures in the sick relative scenario to assist in managing the N, perhaps she'll move it elsewhere, and the relative can live out their autmn years in peace and comfort.
Godbless
CF
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Why can't we just place them in a vacuum?
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Feb/21/2009, 10:40 am
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