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bellvireo
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Sister situation--Please help.
I need some advice and insight on my situation with my sister.
She had asked me what she could do to help me in my nh/divorce situation. I told her it would help so much if she would call me once in awhile to say hi and talk. Did she do this? No.
I called her one day, it was a Saturday, I guess while she and her boyfriend and his kids were watching TV. I said “Hi! How ya doing?” She answered “We’re watching a movie right now”. Flat tone, kind of angry. I said “Oh, ok, I was just kind of lonely and thought I’d give you a call”. She said “Yeah, well I’ve been lonely before too”. (I felt like I was missing something here) I said, “Oh, ok, bye then” and hung up.
This was about 3 months ago. In the past I’ve always called to smooth things out when we’ve had "strained" words between us. I refuse to do it this time.
My sister had complained to me so many times that she hates that her boyfriend does this SAME thing to her. He asks what she needs him to do; she tells him she just wants him to tell her he loves her; and then he never does it. She told me so many times how much that hurt her.
Why is she doing this same thing to me? I don’t understand. It feels like n all over again. It feels so rotten. I love her, she’s my sister. Ugh, Ugh, Ugh.
Please let me know what you think, am I being the jerk here refusing to call her? Thanks.
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Oct/5/2009, 8:50 pm
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DeMarie57
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Re: Sister situation--Please help.
I don't think you are being a jerk for feeling hurt because your request for "check in" calls and support have been ignored or that she was calloused when you called her in need of a shoulder. Is this a recurring problem with your sister?
You will get through this- the distant sister and the divorce. Hang in there!
---
DeMarie57
True healing
involves body, mind and Spirit.
~ © Alison Stormwolf ~
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Oct/7/2009, 10:14 am
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bellvireo
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Re: Sister situation--Please help.
Hi DeMarie-- Love the name Marie. It sounds like a bird singing to me!!
My sis has a hard time being not perfect. She's very smart, usually very kind and sweet, and very proper. She gets very defensive and acts like I've done something to hurt her, if I tell her that something she did hurt me.
When our parents died a few years back, I remember telling her that I had called them just about every day (when they were still doing OK). She said, "Oh, I only called them once every couple of months or so, I wanted them to work out their own problems". It might be that that's how she feels about me.
I feel very fair-weather-friended by her.
Sigh,
Thanks for you help  . Let me know what you think.
b
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Oct/7/2009, 1:28 pm
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DeMarie57
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Re: Sister situation--Please help.
I came across this quote that helps to me to not get hurt feelings when someone doesn't respond to me the way I need/want them to at the time.
"Just because someone doesn't love you in the way you want them to, doesn't mean that they don't love you with all they've got. " - author unknown
It sounds like your sister just doesn't have those warm ooooey gooooey feelings you need her to have. Does she intentionally set out to hurt you? Or is it more neglect?
I am sorry you have lost your parents and can see where that would make it more important to you to have a close relationship with your sister. It may be that there is a difference in needs and not a lack of love.
Hang in there, Sweetie. Cultivate other relationships. There are so many people out there who would love to have kind and thoughtful friend like you.
My relationship with my Nsis has been very destructive. Don't know that I would have survived without the friends who know me and love me just the way I am and the support I've gotten from this board.
The DeMarie is after an acquaintance who made a huge impact in my life. If I'd had another daughter she would have been named DeMarie! LOL
Hang in there Bell! You can do it!!!!!
DeMarie
---
DeMarie57
True healing
involves body, mind and Spirit.
~ © Alison Stormwolf ~
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Oct/8/2009, 7:26 am
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bellvireo
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Re: Sister situation--Please help.
Thanks DeMarie,
Love that quote. I copy/pasted it already.
No, she doesn't intentionally hurt me, I don't think. I guess I just need to realize that she can't be, doesn't want to be, or doesn't know how to be, what I need from her. I'll let it go.
I'm glad you mentioned about friends. I'm so grateful for the few new ones I've made. I'll focus on that, and let time work out my sister situation.
Sorry about your Nsis. It must be so painful.
Thanks again DeMarie. Your words have helped so much.
b.
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Oct/8/2009, 10:00 am
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Growing Strong
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Re: Sister situation--Please help.
Hi Bellverio...
I have no advice. I can only offer the comfort of saying I know what you mean, and what you are feeling.
I have a daughter, and 2 siblings that treat me the same way. Basically.. they ignore me.
From looking back incidents in past years I'm thinking they are narcissists... and so was my dad.... but I just never knew what the problem was before.
I don't get any interest shown from any of them about me or my life. No phone calls or anything... haven't for years. No feelings of concern or anything coming from them. It hurts to know they don't care. That I don't really mean anything to any of them, and never have. It's very difficult to absorb into the mind... since we are the type of people who care so much.
N's don't like to be "wrong" about anything...so when you tell one they did something that hurt you they get mad.
Happened with my xh and my daughter and I've seen it in a N I worked with last year. She got furious at her young granddaughter for correcting her about something.
Dealing with learning that other family members are N's is so much more painful than finding it out about my x. We easily disown the x spouse and get them out of our lives, so, in time, it doesn't matter to us that they don't care, because we stop giving our care and love to them.
But how do we do that with other blood relatives?
It's gotten to where I feel like puking everytime I read some sentiment about "family".. and how special it is for the holidays and everything else.
What family? I have none. None at all. I've lost everyone to narcissism... not just my xh.
I have to disagree with the quote about love that DeMarie shared...
Narcissists do not love, period. They do not have any concept of true and real love...it's not in them to give.
Their definition of love.. is based totally on what they can get from someone. They don't give anything to anyone... least of all true heart-love.
When you have love in your heart for someone else.... you care about "them", wether or not "they" are hurting, or sad, or lonely, or in need of some kind of help. True love is wanting to be there "for" meeting someone elses needs.
N's only seek to get their own needs met. Period. There is no love at all in their heart... except of course for their own self.
I know this hurts you a lot. Like I said... I get it from N relatives too. It's a pain I still have not figured out how to handle.
All we can do... is first, love ourselves, and then be grateful when it does come from someone else. We have to let go of trying to get something from a place it does not even exist.
Hugs, GS
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Oct/8/2009, 4:54 pm
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bellvireo
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Re: Sister situation--Please help.
Oh Dear Growing Strong,
Thanks for your kind words. Knowing that someone understands is comfortingly human.
Isn't ignoring a type of verbal or emotional abuse? I would never ignore my sister if I knew she was hurting. That's what I don't get.
The other thing that always needled me when I would discuss my situation with my sister, was that she seemed to go out of her way to "see n's side". One time particular, I went up to her home to visit, and was having a hard time dealing with something n had said to my daughter. I was angry, and was saying what a creep he was and so on. Everytime I would say how much I was hurting from this, she would say "Oh, he probably was just doing such and such, or Oh, he's really trying, or Oh, he's just moving on". Things like that.
I finally was over being told, essentially in my opinion, that "he's an OK guy, and you just need to get over that he dumped you", that I said "You know, you're right, n's a great guy, and I'm just being a total a**, it didn't matter that he cheated, lied, and beat me, and his a creep to our daughter. He really is just wonderful: nice to know you're on his side too". She immediately 180'd and said "OH, no I don't think he's a great guy, and I'm never on his side".
Later I told her, "you know s., I feel bad that the only time you defended me was when I called myself an a** and him a great guy. It's like you don't believe I'm allowed to be angry and upset with him, and it's like you don't really believe me about anything."
Oh, definitely, about the love quote, I don't bother to refer anything about love to n anymore, it's kind of irrelevant. I just still have hopes that sis isn't an n.
I'm so sorry about your daughter. My daughter has said so many supportive things for me. I probably would have had a nervous breakdown without her. You must be a very powerful woman.
Thanks again, appreciate your thoughts with much love. bellvireo
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Oct/8/2009, 6:20 pm
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DeMarie57
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Re: Sister situation--Please help.
Growing,
The quote I shared was NOT in reference to an N. There are many others who aren't N but still aren't able to love us the way we want to be loved. It doesn't mean they don't love us all the that they can. It doesn't mean they are an N simply because they don't meet our needs our way.
I agree that Ns do not, will not love anyone but themselves. But not everyone is an N...I think we have to be careful of applying the N or any other label to everyone who hurts or disappoints us.
Have a wonderful day!
DeMarie
---
DeMarie57
True healing
involves body, mind and Spirit.
~ © Alison Stormwolf ~
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Oct/9/2009, 7:09 am
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Growing Strong
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Re: Sister situation--Please help.
Hi DeMarie... thanks for the explanation.
I understand... and yes, I agree, there are all kinds of love, and all levels of love. And yes not everyone is a narcissist. I appreciate your reply... and meant nothing against you, do hope you know that.
For me... maybe I had always either assumed, or maybe the child in me had always hoped that "family" love was totally separate from and different from non-blood relatives or people in general. And so I always expected more from family. Never got it though.
And then to not get it from my daughter
...almost killed me. It's a shock I still am not over. I never in my wildest dreams thought it was possible that my daughter would not show or give love to me...as I defined that love to be. But then I never knew anything about narcissism while raising her and suffering the abuse of her narcissit dad.
As your quote says... she has it to give...but her definition of it is so very different than mine. I do not "feel" the love. What is being given if it's not felt?
I have a feeling that the subject of Family love and bonding, or lack of, could fill a whole separate discussion forum. We'd probably be amazed at the response to it. It'd probably get more posts than even this forum. Because I think there is a great divide out there between the have's and the have-nots in the area of family love and close family bonding.
Between not getting it in my own family, and not getting it in my xh's family... I am pretty much starved to death for it.
Can you imagine what it is like to have lived the whole last 3 years without getting one single phone call from anyone simply wanting to know how I was feeling, how I was doing
...or just to offer some comfort or interest?
It has been a very rude awakening for me...
I was in emotional agony and pain and going through so many changes trying to survive the divorce and adjust to having to work and support myself... and not one singe phone call from my oldest sister. But, occassionally I'd get the words.. "love you, I'm thinking of you!" in an email she had forwarded. Like that did me any good. Her thoughts can not be felt.
I'm the type... even if a call costs 20 cents a minute.... I can afford to spend $1.00 to call her to hear her voice and find out how SHE is doing. I've done it so often over the years..because that's the kind of person I am.
And so it hurts when someone you love, and have given love to... does not give it in return. Does not think you are important enough to give even a smidgen of attention to.
"Family"... with narcissists in it, loses all meaning. And it hurts.
I have a book about Sisters... and it is a book about what I will never have with my oldest one, (71) because she is not that kind of loving person. The other sister (69) has her own serious family problems and issues..but, she at least is loving. I'm 57...so it's been difficult to bond with them just because of the age difference.
Question I think needs to be asked is... does "loving" have to be taught? Or earned?... where does it come from? How is it birthed in the heart? When does our heart decide to "love" someone, especially blood relatives. And how is love defined... if it is not defined as caring and giving support and interest to someone elses well-being?
If a person cannot give that kind of love...how can they NOT be a narcissist???.. even if it's narcissism in only a small degree.
I think as children, we have to be taught to be considerate of others, and taught to think about what someone else needs. I look back and realise I didn't teach specific lessons about that to my own children, and I didn't learn it from my parents or family growing up...well, except for my mother doting on my odler brothers often. I never got it from her.
Then, as a parent...for some reason... I thought the example I showed of that towards my family and kids...all the caring and giving I did...joyfully...would be enough to teach them to do it for others. It wasn't.
And so also, I assumed that all the love I gave and felt... would just automatically be instilled into their hearts, and then later returned to me.
It didn't turn out that way... and after the divorce it became clearly noticeable, and it confused the heck out of me for the longest.
I gave and gave to my sisters... by choice, and because I loved them, and because I wanted to be close to them and for us to be a part of each other's lives and families. But in the end I got so little in return.
How does one survive living a life feeling so unwanted and unloved and almost as if one is an unwelcome intrusion?
If the capacity to love other humans, most especially blood family... is not in one's heart or mindset... what kind of person is that? If not a narcissist.. then what other name for it?
No... I agree with the quote that others do not have to recipocate the exact same "level" of love/attention/care that we might have in us to give them.
But even so... whatever smaller degree they do give... it should in the very least leave us feeling like we are loved and cared for.
If what they give does not create that kind of feeling... then what are they giving?
And can it still be defined as love?
There are millions of people out there that we can give our love and care to. We are free to do that.. to continue being "loving" people, even if others don't love us in return
However... somewhere along the way, and in every gift shop, and in every greeting card shop...we are bombarded with the message of how wonderful and special is the love of "family"...and we are trained to believe that matters more than anything.
And so...we learn to think we are supposed to have that... and should be able to lean on that special "family love" when there's nothing else in the world to lean on.
For some of us... it just isn't there, and it isn't true.
You are right that we can't label all people who hurt or disappoint us as N's.
However.. the ton of information about narcissism, wether we like it or not... changes everything in our lives.. and redefines all relationships in our lives. Because everything we in the past thought was true and real... gets redefined and recolored.
We now look at everything through the lens of narcissism... because we have to.
It's the only way we can survive. It's the only way we can protect ourselves from being "taken in" again.
If they prove to not be narcissists... that's good news.
Then remains the need to relearn how to relate to them as we learn other things they are "not"... as in not being very loving people.
And we have to redefine how we will decide to let ourselves relate to them then. How much giving will we do? How much neglect or distancing tactics will we accept and tolerate?
The question is not..."to be or not to be".
Maybe the new question is..."to love, or not to love?"... and what is the definition of love that we want to live by?...both in the giving of it, and in the recieving of it.
I hope all of us on here can have some of the good kind.
After what we suffered from the n's in our lives... we need it. It's out there somewhere.. the greeting cards tell us it is.
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Oct/9/2009, 12:27 pm
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Growing Strong
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Re: Sister situation--Please help.
Hi Bellverio...
sorry you got that kind of response from your sister. I know how bad it hurt. Your reply to her was right-on too. I understood it, even if she didn't...lol.
One of the problems with ending a relationship with a N is that no one else in the family ever saw his N side...so, of course, they have no ability to understand what we are choosing for ourselves...or how we could let such a good man get away.
My family of course thinks only good things about my xh... because that's all they saw. Him letting me do whatever I wanted...him putting up with me not cleaning house or cooking etc..etc... he's such a wonderful, tolerant, loving man...in their eyes.
You're right. In their minds we're not allowed to be angry or upset with them. They have no ability to conceptualize what we experienced.
And I can't dare say one word to my siblings about how hard a time I am going through trying to support myself on minimum wage etc..
because after all.. in their minds I know they would say.. it was my choice to end the marriage to Mr. Wonderful. It's my fault. I could have stayed married. I got what I deserved and chose... so no pity would come from them. And definitely no help of any kind.
It gave me chills to read how your sister 180'd in that discussion.
It reminded me of what my xnh used to do. I learned very early that I had to be VERY explicit in our conversations...becaues he could turn his own words around on a dime..and he could say..."I never said that", and it would be true...because he WORDED his sentences in such a way as to always be non-commital in something and would always have an out and be able to say.."that's not what I said".
Your sister didn't do that....
I'm just saying it reminded me of the same type of conversations I experienced with my x...
..and the big hole that exists between what is being said, and what is being heard... and the total opposite explanations given from both sides when it's questioned.
It really is an art to have a clear conversation with someone.
There are lots of books on the subject..of how to understand what someone is really saying, and how to say something to someone so that they understand clearly what you are really saying...
It's not easy to do. I need to do some more reading on it myself.
I really do hope you and your sister can get something worked out.
I'm glad for you that you have a supportive daughter. That's the most important thing.
No...I'm not at all powerful..but, thank you for saying so. Just still hanging on by a thread of a fast-unraveling rope of life. In the end, it's all in God's hands. As long as He gives me the strength to hold on, then I'll hold on. That's all...
Hugs, GS
Last edited by Growing Strong, Oct/9/2009, 1:02 pm
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Oct/9/2009, 12:56 pm
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