faitham1
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When can a child be diagnosed as an N?
I have a 7 yo daughter who is just like her N Dad. She throws tantrums, she hits, she kicks, she is mean to other kids calling them names. She wants to be popular, but I have not alot of money. When she wants something she wants it now. I send her to bed and she kicks the walls and throws things. She rips things up, like pictures and important papers. I am taking her to see a counselor in April, but will they do anything at that time?
She has a half brother that is 19 and an N. Her Ndad is terrible, he is in prison and he is pshyco. What do I do? I also have a normal daughter who is 6 yo. She is more calm, has lots of friends and respects me.
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Feb/19/2009, 12:47 pm
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LillyAngel
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Re: When can a child be diagnosed as an N?
Hi Faitham,
I know that if your child is under 18 you are unlikely to get a diagnosis..
However you say your husband was an N and also your son..
This means you've plenty of experience with N's ,professional diagnosis or not.
The same thing happened to me and after many years with an NM,XNH and now an NS,I do not believe a professional diagnosis is needed...what good would it do anyway?its incurable after all..
Go by your gut feelings..
If you think this child is showing signs of a personality disorder,then she probably is..her behaviours sound very familar to me as well.
Whatever you do,don't let anyone tell you that you're wrong because this is "just a kid"
Don't let them make you feel bad for knowing what you know..
If they want to invalidate you're experience,move on and talk to those who will help you.
My NS' behaviours kicked off at age 7 and escalated by age 9,so I completely understand where you are coming from with this...
As for a "professional diagnosis"
I think they're over rated and I've spoken to many "professionals" that don't have a clue..
Hugs
Lillyx
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Feb/19/2009, 2:30 pm
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topaz123
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Re: When can a child be diagnosed as an N?
Hi faitham. My daughter is not just N but also P and now in her late 20s..She is undiagnosed.which is a pity.and was an adult already when we realised something was very wrong, so getting a diagnosis now would be impossible.
I tried to think back to how she behaved at 7....she was a reasonably good kid, very pushy, always wanted to win at any board games etc.but never really stepped over the line...back then we didn't have any of these angry outbursts from her, that started when she reached 14 and hit puberty.
Once she started puberty, her behaviour became extreme....but lots of teenagers do extreme things as teenagers and end up as perfectly well adjusted members of society.......unfortunately, mine didn't.
We hoped.and waited for the extreme behaviour to fade away as it does with most kids..she never got out of it. There were some good days but many more bad days with her. Sometimes she could go for 3 or 4 months at a time and things would be great...I later learned that during the great times with her was when she was at her worst and doing the most damage...and by this time I was her prime target.
There are many things that can affect a childs behaviour without being personality disorder.in spite of the fact you already have other family members who do have it..every family has a blacksheep, doesn't mean to say that because there is 1 there has to be another.
My other daughter.who is normal, did have temper tantrums when she was a toddler and we stopped all food colourings and processed food and within 48 hours she calmed down totally.
I think its a good idea to get therapy/counselling for your daughter. I wish I could have had some sort of counselling for myself years ago....maybe then I could have limited the damage my daughter caused and even avoided a lot of unneccessary heartache cos we simply didn't know what was wrong with her..and I think I would have preferred to know, then at least we would have known what we were up against and could have adjusted.
There is plenty info all over these boards, its surprising how much we can learn from seeing anothers viewpoint and experience......sometimes even 1 small sentence can put us on the right path to finding the knowledge we are looking for.
There is a link also for LJ Leedoms book called something like.Just Like His father.its for parents of children at risk of being N/P. Femfree will point you in the right direction if you ask.sorry can't help any more.
Nobody here is qualified to diagnose.that requires a professional, all we can do is tell our stories , read others stories and hopefully learn.
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Feb/20/2009, 9:48 am
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LillyAngel
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Re: When can a child be diagnosed as an N?
You can delete my posts all you want..
Last edited by femfree, Feb/21/2009, 12:16 pm
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Feb/21/2009, 11:33 am
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femfree
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Re: When can a child be diagnosed as an N?
Hi LillyAngel
Please respond to the PM I sent you.
femfree
---
Children? They don't want presents, they just want to see your face light up when they come in the room.
A member's quote
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Feb/21/2009, 12:17 pm
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faitham1
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Re: When can a child be diagnosed as an N?
Lily, Why would I delete your posts, they are very helpfull to me. I know there is no cure for N, but do any meds work. Showing her alot of Love helps.
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Feb/21/2009, 9:28 pm
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1paren1
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Re: When can a child be diagnosed as an N?
There is a Parental Diagnostic Interview for Narcissism (P-DIN) consisting of 153 questions available for diagnosing pathological narcissism in children 8-13 years old but I don't think many professionals are using it. These are the general traits:
1) overestimation of talents or achievements;
2) fantasies of being all powerful;
3) feeling of being special or unique;
4) intense need of admiration
5) sense of entitlement;
6) tyrannical behaviors with peers or with adults;
7) lack of empathy;
8) feelings of envy leading to excessive and repeated demands;
9) arrogant or contemptuous behaviors;
10) hypersensitivity to criticism or defeat;
11) egocentric behaviors.
One ref is: Guilé et al., Initial Reliability of the Diagnostic Interview for Narcissism, Adapted for Preadolescents: Parent Version (P-DIN), The Canadian Child and Adolescent Psychiatry Review August 2004 (13) : 3
But a lot of what people think is N is really more generally antisocial/sociopathic/psychopathic behavior.
The children's labels most widely used are Conduct Disorder or Oppositional Defiant Disorder (you can look each of these up, there is a lot of good info) although there is also a youth version of the Hare Psychopathy Checklist (PCL-YV).
Professionals are reluctant to use the label psychopath on children because it is very stigmatizing and sometimes they outgrow it.
Psychopathic traits can be detected in children at age 7 or under. Callous, unemotional, and manipulative children are at risk for qualifying as full-blown psychopaths in adulthood.
Last edited by 1paren1, Feb/23/2009, 9:58 pm
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Feb/22/2009, 6:59 am
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1paren1
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Re: When can a child be diagnosed as an N?
[do any meds work]
Where I work, yes, violent and defiant children are a pleasure when they take their medication and you can tell right away when the meds start wearing off or if they didn't take their meds in the morning. Then--chaos, darkness, misery, and destruction.
Ritalin and related drugs and Risperidone are both pretty effective most of the time. Some of the kids are on both and anti-convulsants as well. You will need to take the child to a doctor for more help, it may be expensive, and it might take a couple of months to find something that works. There are side-effects, too. You'll have to decide what you can accept.
I think violence in children is unacceptable and the risks of the drugs are worthwhile.
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Feb/22/2009, 7:26 am
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evelynmryan
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Re: When can a child be diagnosed as an N?
Turn it over to the experts..of course someone who specializes in NPD. Educate everyone in the family and the other children in the abnormalities of the disorder and how to deal with it....coddling her will only fuel the fire.
You are not a doctor...this is a very serious disorder and she may have multiple disorders as well, some of which can be treated with medication.
You and your family deserve better.
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Apr/19/2009, 5:44 pm
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