Growing Strong
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Can't figure out my roll as parent of n adult child
I "think" my 30 year old daughter may have some narcissism... taking after her N dad, whom she loves.
How much of it is narcissism, and how much may be just selfishness...I'm not really sure yet. But...whatever it is...it's not "normal", and I hurt a whole lot because of it.
She is not physically or verbally abusive, as I have read about in this section.
In a way it's worse... I'm ignored.
If I want to talk to her, I have to call her at work because she does not answer her personal phone when I call, and she doesn't call back and reply to any messages I leave. Any e-mail replies from her are very short and to the point ...and no emotions.
After reading of the major suffering some of you go through, I feel I should be grateful only to be ignored... but, it hurts.
And that is what I can't get my head around. I want to have a 'normal' relationship with her. And yet, I know it will never be that way. I can't let go of the "want".
Problem I need help with is.... what am I supposed to do with "me"...??... the love I feel, the desire I feel for a relationship, and even the "need" I have for a relationship with her, especially since divorcing her dad.
What do we do with it???... how do I disolved the emotions... how do I disolve being her mother? I basically have to...because I am nothing to her.
And the painful part is that I know it is that way because I can not give her anything she needs.
That is because I'm barely surviving on minimum wage.
The only time she ever does call to talk, is on a night she's alone, and has had a bit too much to drink... and there isn't anyone else to talk to because her husband is gone playing poker or bowling with his friends.
It's so hard for me to get my head around the fact that my daughter does not have in her the things I need and want her to have - love for me, and at least a bit of interest in my well being.
In the 2 years since our divorce, it blew my mind that she has never once ever called for the simple reason of wondering how I am doing. To this day I can't get my head around such lack of care, lack of concern, lack of interest. That my life is basically insignificant to her.
It's easy to dislodge from a N spouse who you do not want in your life anymore...
But a mother wants to be in her child's life, and wants her child to be part of her life...it's what we are made of!
How do we shut off our "mother" traits and feelings that are in our heart and mind... how do we disolve that roll out of our very soul?
Part of me feels like I should just mentally and emotionally disown her... and stop even thinking of her in terms of her being my daughter. Because we will never have a healthy mother/daughter relationship.
Problem is... she's the mother of my only grandchild. She shares custody with the father, who thankfully.. is very loving and normal, and has a good family as well.
But... I hardly ever get to see my grandson..and that has been so devatating to me since the divorce. That's the other pain... she has not ever made specific effort to make sure my grandchild gets to see me. She knows I don't have money for gas etc to make trips to her house.
I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd lose so much in divorcing my husband - my daughter and my grandson.
Some days it's just too much for me to handle...and I just hurt so much at the loss of the connection... from learning how she is, and the possibility that she is a n like her dad.
Never recognized it before the divorce... I was too busy being part of the process of her getting whatever she wanted. Mother's like their children to be happy...so making her happy was a thrill for me when she was younger.
Now... I'm trying to learn to be my own person and support myself.. and am broke and have nothing to give her. And so, I get nothing in return.
It was a painful revelation... and it just has me all locked up inside.
How does a mother deal with what basically feels like the pain of the death of a child.....who is still alive?
How do the other mothers on here deal with it emotionally??? Thanks for any help or advice... GS
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Oct/7/2009, 10:01 pm
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bellvireo
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Re: Can't figure out my roll as parent of n adult child
Hi GS,
Geez, we have so many of the same bewilderments, hurts and trials.
I used to write off the behaviors you've experienced from your daughter and xnh, as just plain being selfish. I still think the withholding, undermining, trivializing, discounting, and forgetting behaviors are selfish; but now I know that they are verbal abuses.
Those techniques all seek to "put you in your place", "maintain their cool indifference", "make sure your feelings are wrong and worth nothing", "make you feel insignificant". They all speak as loud, or louder than words. But because the abuser is not cussing or yelling, the abused person doesn't even know they're being abused.
That's what you've been going through, hon, as well as trying to deal with xnh and possible n-daughter.
I had no idea what verbal abuse was until I read "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. It finally put a concrete name to some of the confusion and pain that I was going through. If you haven't read it, I'd recommend it.
The only consolation I can offer is that perhaps your D is still growing up. That; complicated with her r/s problems, her child, and your divorce, may make it difficult for her to process all her feelings.
Maybe she just can't deal with it all right now. It still doesn't explain her cruelty though.
Sometimes, some children will do anything to remain the apple of the n's eye. This a quote from Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That?" "Children of abusers often find their father's attention and approval hard to come by. This scarcity has the effect of increasing his value in their eyes, as any attention from him feels special and exciting. Ironically, their mother can come to seem less important to them because they know they can count on her." p. 242.
I'm not trying to excuse her behavior to you. I would be totally crushed and broken. She may have tons of n-father manipulating from over the years.
It's like; now what do you do with the information? It doesn't really take away the pain and it doesn't solve anything. What should be so easy and wonderful, a child returning a mother's love, is some nightmare that you can't wake up from.
Speak blessings into yourself. Speak healing into yourself. Give yourself some time to regain your power and sense of you. You've been "a mother", "a wife", "a scapegoat", but you have you been just "GS"? Let her see your power. Let her see that you are out there doing new things. Call her once in awile and suggest a lunch or a brief outing with grandson (no shopping or buying her anything). If she says yes, great, but NO talking about N or the divorce. If she says no, act like it's no big deal. You have fun things to do anyway.
Eventually either she'll come around or she won't. If she does--fabulous. If she doesn't--you deal with it then. For now, love her with all your heart, but let go of the fantasy r/s you want, and build your own dreams.
Love and hugs and peace, bellvireo
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Oct/8/2009, 10:09 pm
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mariemarie
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Re: Can't figure out my roll as parent of n adult child
Dear GS -
I'm just posting to let you know you are not the only woman out there to have finally left an emotionally abusive spouse only to find you've lost your children. You and I have a lot in common. The silent treatment is very powerful emotional abuse.
I have two daughters, younger than yours, now 18 and 21. I left their Ndad after 19 years of marriage three years ago, when they were 15 and 18. It took a couple of years and therapy for me to realize just what Ndad had been doing with our kids, triangulating them with me. It was worse with the older one, who is totally enmeshed with him. My D18 has to play along with D21 and Ndad in order to have a r/s with her sister at all. I now see that she grew up being controlled by her sister, and as time passes, I believe she will become more and more like her and Ndad. I hope not. But she still admires him, even though he has done very hurtful things to her as punishment for having a r/s with me. She refuses counseling and recently has begun giving me the silent treatment like her older sister. D18 is not verbally abusive when she does have contact with me, like D21. D21 is openly hostile toward me.
I dread the day they have their own children, and just don't know what I will do. There aren't many places you can say that and have someone understand. Not even all people who have been abused by Ns can understand what these Ns we were married to were capable of doing in order to have control over us - even to the point of turning our own children against us. But they can do it, and have, in our cases. I so sympathize with you.
All I can say is that as long as your D will allow you to see your GS, it's good for him to have a r/s with you, because you can show him genuine love, which he's not getting from the Ns in his life, to be sure. I am so sorry for how painful it must be. I could sympathize with you if at some point it becomes unbearable to have to deal with his mother in order to see him. I don't know your situtation, but in mine, my D21 is punishing me on hehalf of her Nfather, and I'm pretty certain she wouldn't bat an eye at using her own child as a means of continuing the punishment. After all, she grew up experiencing her Nfather using his own children to punish his wife.
It is so sad - but understanding it all is leading me to be able to find some peace, and forgiveness. I've been practicing emotionally detaching from my children. I know, that sounds horrid, but it doesn't mean I don't love them. It's just that I can't leave my heart out in the open for them to stomp on over and over again. For one thing, it's not a good example to show them, and now that I see that it's what I did for years, I don't think it's right to continue it. And mostly, I have to protect me. Who else is going to do it? Not my children.
I'm proud for you that you are making your own way. Don't let the fact that your family is N take that away! Bellvireo has beautifully worded advice for you, and for me too.
Here's a link I found about emotional detachment, in case you want to look at it. Take good care of yourself. Wish we could meet for coffee and talk. (((hugs)))
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/
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Oct/9/2009, 9:58 am
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bellvireo
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Re: Can't figure out my roll as parent of n adult child
Hi GS and mariemarie,
I lost both my step-kids, that I raised since they were 1 and 2 years old. And my ex-step-daughter's little boy, my little ex-GS. It breaks my heart. They live two houses away from me and I hear little GS playing outside all the time.
She won't let me speak to him. She won't speak to me. After raising her for her whole life, and being there every step of the way with her first pregnancy. She called me Mom, I taught her to tie her shoes, I was there for her when neither her real mom or dad were. The list is endless. A lifetime's worth. My ex-step-son is younger than xnh's new girlfriend. He is so controlled by xnh and x step-daughter that he's too afraid to talk to me even if he could.
Bleh. I could just scream sometimes.
I had to give of the search for any kind of r/s with them. I will definitely look into the emotinal detachment link. Thanks mm. 
Coffee sounds great. I think I'll go get a vanilla iced one. YUM.
Thanks so much for listening. b.
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Oct/9/2009, 11:27 am
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Growing Strong
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Re: Can't figure out my roll as parent of n adult child
Hello... just wanted to let you both know that I had come by and had read your replies.... and am so grateful for them.
Just can't answer them yet... but I will.
I'm off work for a couple of days soon... then I can let it out.
Was at my daughter's this past Thursday to see my grandson... and it was a very pleasant visit. She was nice and we chatted friendly about various things while she was cooking supper.
She didn't invite me to stay and eat.
And she didn't invite me to join them in going to the fair this weekend....tonight. And I'm pretty sure my x is there with them.
Your replies up there helped immensely for me to understand it and be able to handle it.
Amazingly... she asked me if I was going to be off work Monday because she was still going to have her son with her that day and she was also off. That made me feel good that she was wanting to include me in the day. And thankfully, I am off!!
It was so good to see my grandson, and to get and give hugs with him...that, that night I slept like a baby all night through, and I seldom ever do that.
More later. Thanks again. GS
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Oct/10/2009, 7:47 pm
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Growing Strong
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Re: Can't figure out my roll as parent of n adult child
This situation is still causing me pain...but, thankfully, I'm more accepting of it and do not cry anymore. I just simply hurt and still feel confused and unsure of what is the right thing to think about her and our relationship.
It just hurts to be left out of her life.
I know as with all children, she needs her own space etc and I am not going to be a part of all things, all the time...
I just was not prepared to feel so "severed" from her. Knowing about the narcissism colors everything differently and I see her in a new light which makes it all more difficult.
Years agowhen her older brother first moved out and didn't call or contact hardly at all... I was able to handle it. It wasn't an "injury" like it is with her.
Losing a child to narcissism is like having a bleeding wound that will never ever heal. An ache that will never ever go completely away.
We can't ditch or dump the kids like we did the x's... especially when grandchildren are involved. Since the divorce she's made this time of year the most painful in my life ... and has taken away something from me that I can never have again. Happy Family time.
Just had to get it out on here...kind of like a diary, or journaling.
I think the hardest part may be in seeing her for what she is...and then not being able to "help" her in certain areas of her life that she discusses ... because you know there is no real help for them.
Not being able to help your child with their life goes totally against the grain of what it means to be a mother.
Maybe that's the definition of the problem in relating to her.
We can't "mother" our n children.
We can't be "normal" with them. We can't be our true selves with them, ever.
So what does that make us? We also can't be their friend ... n's don't have friends. They have suppliers. And we can't let ourselves be "used".
There's just no "win" at all for us. It seems to me that all we can do is take each hit when it comes...and let it go.
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Nov/26/2009, 9:49 pm
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