ThePloughman
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Big R 5 ply dating question no one has asked.
Ok.....
I have an early Big R SuperTen with a 5 digit serial number, in the 32000 range, a 77 dynasonic in the 716000 range, a 77 set in the 718000, 716,000, 724000. I had a 78-79, 5 ply set with badges in the 950000 range, and my xp10 dynasonics are back in the 114000 and 122000 range.
So my question is this, have we seen original owner 5 ply sets bought in 77-79 with low numbers? I could understand badge roll over as an explanation if we have, but if we havent..... being as the 5 ply was from 75-79, we should be able to approximate when badge roll overs occured by knowing when sets were purchased new. What I am saying is that if badge roll overs occured with any regular frequency, then we should see low serial numbers year by year, and frankly I dont see that.
So I guess I am asking Big R original owners, or those that definitively know the provenance of their drums, do you have late 5 ply drums with low badge numbers as opposed to late 5 ply drums with high badge numbers?
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10/26/2007, 6:31 pm
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LongRoll
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Re: Big R 5 ply dating question no one has asked.
When I look at the old Kelly Smith dating guide I see Big R serial numbers starting at D37xxx.
In the Rogers Book there's a Big R foil badge D24667.
What were the first order serial numbers rolls. Did they order D10xxx to D999xxx, or did they start with D10xxx to D100xxx, and when they saw the waste and how fast they were using the badges did they order D100xxx to D999xxx.
I feel from what I've seen that they ordered 50,000 paper tags at a time in the 60s. When it comes to the foil Big R badges, I don't know at this time.
I know that they used Swivo Knobby Floor Tom legs for the first year or so, on Big R 5 ply floor toms. So if you have a Big R set and the floor tom has Swivo Knobby Units on it, it was made in the first year of Big R drums.
Bruce
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10/26/2007, 9:20 pm
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ThePloughman
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Re: Big R 5 ply dating question no one has asked.
My set was purchased new at Modesto Music in 1977. I have the original sales receipt from when the original owner ordered the set. He paid in advance. I do have Fullerton Cast Swivo Mounts on my 18"FT.
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10/26/2007, 11:43 pm
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mschnake
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Re: Big R 5 ply dating question no one has asked.
I have an XP5 kit...not the original owner so I can't date them precisely. The bass and hanging toms have serial nubmers in the D74XXX range. The floor tom has a serial number D95XXXX. Am I safe in assuming that the first 3 drums are from around 77 and the floor is from around 78-79?
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10/27/2007, 10:21 am
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tommykat1
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Re: Big R 5 ply dating question no one has asked.
Another interesting thread where we get to play Sherlock Holmes. Unfortunately, I'm clueless. But I will throw a wrench in the works with another question or six.
Okay, we keep hearing that the company would use non S/Nd badges when they ran out of serial numbered badges until a new batch came in. With the evdence, there is something impractical that doesn't add up here. Consider these Pics:
In the right pic, the rectangle, letter "D" and the verbiage "Serial Number" are part of the BADGE and not part of the actual stamped S/N. This means that the company's stash of "Non S/Nd" badges should have had an empty rectangle. Or, they had an additional stash of special badges with no serial number verbiage, no "D," no rectangle and no intention of putting S/Ns on them, because there was no rectangular box for placement (left pic).
Why would they have intentionally ordered two separate kinds of badges? Doesn't it make sense that they would simply have a stash of badges with empty rectangles except for the letter "D?" Does anybody out there have a badge with an empty serial number rectangle?
More important, did the company get to the point where they said "screw serial numbering the darn badges?" If so, when? My 1980 XP8 kit does not have serial numbers (left pic). It makes sense logically that the lack of S/Ns were an intentional decision of a trend that had ended.
Another question: Did they retain S/Nd badges for the Dynas, but stop putting them on the other drums? The right pic is from my newly acquired 1982/83 Dyna, and is S/Nd. Are there some Big R Dynas without S/Ns? Anybody seen or have one of these?
Here are the pertinent questions again:
1) Why would Rogers have intentionally ordered two separate kinds of badges?
2) Did they have a stash of badges with empty rectangles except for the letter "D?"
3) Does anybody out there have a badge with an empty serial number rectangle?
4) Did the company get to the point where they said "screw serial numbering the darn badges?" If so, when?
5) Did they retain S/Nd badges for the Dynas, but stop putting them on the other drums?
6) Are there some Big R Dynas without S/Ns? Anybody seen or have one of these?
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10/31/2007, 6:55 pm
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ThePloughman
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Re: Big R 5 ply dating question no one has asked.
There are Big R dyanasonics without serials. they pop up on ebay from time to time.
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10/31/2007, 10:45 pm
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tommykat1
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Re: Big R 5 ply dating question no one has asked.
Do they have the tag with no rectangle, or a tag with the S/N rectangle left blank?
Do they say "Made in USA" on them? As you know, the Dynas were continued after Rogers went out of business.
I hope this data is being collated somewhere, maybe in the new dating guide you guys a re working on.
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11/1/2007, 9:23 am
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ThePloughman
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Re: Big R 5 ply dating question no one has asked.
Plain in the area you expect to see the SN. Rogers USA tag.
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11/1/2007, 4:59 pm
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tommykat1
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Re: Big R 5 ply dating question no one has asked.
From some other information that has just been collected by the contributors on this wonderful forum, we've determined that the thumbwheel luglocks were added to the Dynas in 1982 when the maple XP10 Dynas were introduced (prior production of wood Dynas had ended in 1973). The 1982 models also had black felt under the lugs for isolation. In 1983, they used green felt under the lugs.
The Superten was also reintroduced in 1982. This drum may or may not have had the felt isolators. They did not have the brass thumbwheel luglocks.
Both the Dyna and Superten were available in Brass, COB and 10 ply maple. Further, it appears that both shells were of identical construction, i.e., interchangeable, and included snarebeds on the otherwise 45 deg bearing edge.
It has been reported that some of the Big R Dynas (and Supertens?) did not have serial numbers.
Production of American made Rogers drums ended in 1983.
Last edited by tommykat1, 11/2/2007, 11:38 am
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11/1/2007, 10:56 pm
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