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LongRoll
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 ~~~Big R & XP-8 Information~~~
Thanks to tommykat1 for this picture of the only two versions of Rogers USA Big R Foil Badges. (This is according to the Rogers experts I've talked to).
There was a large amount of waste using the Big R foil badges and when they were re-ordered they used the same serial number sequence, so using Big R badges for dating purposes is not accurate. Other things, such as hardware, need to be observed
The Rogers Big R Badge, Memriloc Hardware era started in 1975. The drums were 5-ply shell, 5-ply rings with speckled gray interiors 1975 to 1979. 1977 to 1979 drums with lacquer finishes had clear interiors.
The very first COB Dynasonic snare drums were transitional (wood Dynasonic snare drums had been discontinued since 1973). Rogers had many COB shells that had been drilled for metal oval badges, so they put the new Big R badge in that location (first bay to the right of the throw). Those transition Dynasonic had the Big R foil badge and the Rogers script badge on them. When those were used up the Big R Badge went to the script badge location two bays to the left of the throw.
The first year or two Big R drum sets had the cast Swivo knobby floor tom legs.
These drums from this era are very good drums with the only noticeable flaw is that sometimes the bearing edges weren't as true as past Rogers drums.
In 1979 Rogers made a big change in the way they made drums and developed the XP-8 line. These new drums were made from 8-ply all Maple shells with no re-rings, clear interiors, they had a 45 degree bearing edge that started at the outside of the shell. This made them louder with more sustain and ring. These drums remained about the same from 1979 to the end 1984?
These drums are hard to date because of the reuse of the serial number sequence on the foil badges, but here are a few notes that might help:
The early Memriloc hardware wing nuts had flutes in the wing and were a one piece with the threads part of the casting..
In very late 1980 the wing nuts lost the flutes and became a two piece, with the threads being an insert
The screws that held on the lugs were standard cad. plated screws until about 1982 when they became black anodized.
5X14 and 6.5X14 10-ply Maple Dynasonic and Superten snare drums used the same Maple shell. The black felts were first and the green one's later (1982-83??)
The no serial number Big R foil badges were probably an rush order measure. The serial numbered ones would take to long to make, and they needed to keep the production line moving. They were used at least once in 1980, and then later replaced the serial numbered badges all together. Maybe 1983?
As information comes in to change these dates, I'll make updates.
Bruce
Last edited by LongRoll, 11/2/2007, 10:34 am
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11/1/2007, 6:46 pm
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tommykat1
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Re: ~~~Big R & XP-8 Information~~~
Bruce, you have collated all the data beautifully. Sherlock Holmes in action...
Glad to know that the green felts came after the black felts.
Some additional points:
(1) My XP8 kit was ordered in May, 1980 and delivered on July 15. I believe I have the non fluted type of Memriloc wing nut. I tried to remove the screw with vice grips, but gave up, as I did not want to mess up the thread. If I am correct--I've never seen the other type, so I don't know what to look for--you'll want to amend your timeline to say that the earliest, ie 1979 models, had the fluted nut.
(2) The Rogers Book indicates that no drums were produced in 1984, so you may wish to state that the official American-made Rogers era ended in 1983. According to the Rogers Book, in that year, John Cermenero claims to have "received the only salaried paycheck that was paid solely on Rogers as a cost center." He goes on to say, "The goal was to deplete the inventory of raw materials so when they pulled the plug, they'd have a minimum scrap rate...I finally quit in 1984 because I was just too stressed."
The Rogers book further states: " From January 1984 through March of 1985 the Fender/Rogers/Rhodes division...was for sale. In the summer of 1984 there literally was a 'For Sale' sign out front."
In 1985, after CBS corporate raider William Schultz sold the Rogers brand to a consortium made up of himself, parts and equipment were sold off in bulk to three main parties: John Cermenaro, a Chicago area distributor (now-defunct), and Al Drew's Music.
Tom
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11/1/2007, 10:32 pm
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tommykat1
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Re: ~~~Big R & XP-8 Information~~~
quote:
LongRoll wrote:
The no serial number Big R foil badges were probably an rush order measure. The serial numbered ones would take to long to make, and they needed to keep the production line moving. They were used at least once in 1980, and then later replaced the serial numbered badges all together. Maybe 1984?
...One thing I just thought of: My no-S/N badges were from 1980. This coincides with the year that Rogers moved to Monrovia. I actually visited this factory at the time. Maybe we can determine that it was the Monrovia drums that had no S/Ns on the badges...?????
It would help if anybody with no-S/N badges would weigh in, especially if they know the dates their drums were purchased. The Big R badges from this era should at least say "Made in USA" on them.
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11/1/2007, 11:22 pm
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tommykat1
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Re: ~~~Big R & XP-8 Information~~~
Regarding XP10, Brass & COB Big R Snare Drums:
Information gathered from the contributors to this wonderful forum has determined--probably conclusively--that the thumbwheel luglocks were added to the Dynas in 1982 when the maple XP10 Dynas were introduced (prior production of wood Dynas had ended in 1973). The 1982 models also had green felt under the lugs for isolation. In 1983, they used black felt under the lugs.
The Superten snare was also reintroduced in 1982. This drum may or may not have had the felt isolators. They did not have the brass thumbwheel luglocks.
Both the Dyna and Superten were available in Brass, COB and 10 ply "prime New England old growth rock maple." Further, it appears that both shells were of identical construction, i.e., they were interchangeable, and included snarebeds on the otherwise 45 deg bearing edge.
It has been reported that some of the Big R Dynas (and Supertens?) did not have serial numbers. It is also reported that at least one of the non S/Nd kits can be conclusively dated to the year that the factory had moved to Monrovia, before moving back to Fullerton in 1981. S/Nd drums appeared in Fullerton after that, and there may have been other drums also produced without serial numbers.
Production of American made Rogers drums ended in 1983.
Last edited by tommykat1, 4/6/2008, 4:37 pm
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11/2/2007, 11:50 am
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tommykat1
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Urgent Big R Info
Longroll: For dating purposes, here is an XP8 kit in black wrap with no serial number, correct clear lacquer interior. Note concert toms (blech). I will also post this in the auction area.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200176420709&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
Last edited by tommykat1, 11/23/2007, 7:28 pm
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11/23/2007, 12:48 am
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Rogers Memoriloc
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 Re: ~~~Big R & XP-8 Information~~~
The Wing nut on the right like TK's is off my New England White XP8 kit. It came off the the bass drum mount where the tom post is inserted. The second was off a tom stand that I got with two concert toms from the big R "5ply" years. I don't have the serials off those toms, and my XP8 kit has no serials,
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4/4/2008, 9:06 pm
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tommykat1
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Re: ~~~Big R & XP-8 Information~~~
Yes. CLEARLY the earlier chrome one wreaks of quality...
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4/4/2008, 9:31 pm
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tommykat1
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Re: ~~~Big R & XP-8 Information~~~
Also, and most important, after this thread was started in November 2007, we have been honored with the presence of John Cermenaro, the last R&D and Production manager of the Rogers Drum Company. He has validated that the green felts were placed on the wood Dynasonics when they were reintroduced in 1982, and the black felts were added to all Dynasonics and wood wrapped shells in 1983, before production stopped.
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4/4/2008, 9:43 pm
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Rogers Memoriloc
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 Re: ~~~Big R & XP-8 Information~~~
Hope you like the close up TK!
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4/6/2008, 12:25 pm
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tommykat1
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Re: ~~~Big R & XP-8 Information~~~
Yes, Rogers-M, nice close ups!
Using 000 steel wool and good 'ol Blue Magic, you can bring the later wing nut back to a polished stainelss-like, almost-chrome finish.
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4/7/2008, 1:18 pm
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