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Powertone
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English Built Dynasonic
Nut Box..... Per your request, some photos and a brief story about my English built Dynasonic....
I obtained this drum from Don Canedy in Covington back around 1968. Don was the Education Director for Rogers at the time (and later Marketing Director during the Fullerton era). I took lessons from Don and his son Todd. I bought a drumset from Don and he included this dynasonic. It wasn't until years later that I realized that it was an English built drum.
As I noted earlier, it is a much better playing dyna than any other dyna I have owned. Not sure why. It plays a bit fatter than my other dynas and has alot more character.
It is my feeling that the drum was assembled from US parts with the exception of the muffler, which I believe is an Ajax. I have seen variations with b&b lugs, and recently saw an identical drum to mine sell on eBay.
As you can see the drum is kind of an enigma. It has tall hoops (typical of a b&b era drum), but a later swivo strainer. The 7 line shell appears identical to my 7 line US built dyna. All tension rods have the square head.
The frame is a rare first generation snare frame! Only seen on the first few hundred dynas (if that many) - all of which were b&b lug drums.
The tone control is not US Rogers...
Here is a shot of the smaller knob for the muffler (note the holes for the usual missing script badge - I still have the badge, but it is missing the "R")...
Lastly, the dyna badge is the early version - without a serial number (typical of English dynas), and no grommet.
From the looks of this drum, I think Rogers sent alot of their extra parts that they phased out, over to England. That would explain a first generation snare frame, tall hoops and early badge (all of which disappeared after the first few dynas) - yet it had a more modern swivo strainer.
It does seem strange that not that many English Rogers appear with beavertail lugs.
Hope this info is useful. Keep your eyes open. You never know when one of these may come up on eBay. Now you will recognize it.
Last edited by Powertone, 2/18/2008, 8:49 pm
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2/18/2008, 7:11 pm
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tommykat1
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Re: English Built Dynasonic
Powertone.............I love it when you do that!
Wish more members would post their close ups like you...
This is yet one more wonderful drum to share with the masses.
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2/18/2008, 10:27 pm
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Nut Box
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Re: English Built Dynasonic
Powertone, great photos and a great story to go with it.
Your analysis of the drum throws up lots of questions. Here are some photos of my English Dyna for comparison.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DSCN1084.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DSCN1073.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DSCN1095.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DSCN1094.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DSCN1082-1.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DSCN1079.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DSCN1069.jpg
The damper: definitely Ajax, this about the only thing I am sure of. The knob is spot on.
The shell: Interesting to hear that the shell is identical to your earlier US Dyna. If you look through the grommet hole do you have a serial number and "Made in England" stamped on the shell?
The rims: Dave Seville says that Ajax made their own tall triple flange rims. The ER B&B and Beavertail kits as far as I have seen had the same tall rims. Do I understand you to say that the US Beavertail kits had shorter rims? You see I look at your drum and to me it looks right. My upper rim I think is a replacement of some kind.
The Frame: I know nothing of frames. I have never thought that the different frames would apply to me as the mine was made in the UK. What do you think of my frame? I don't know what to look for. Maybe they were shipped over?
Strainer: I am coming to suspect that all the snare strainers were shipped over. They all say "Made in the USA". Ajax were not shy to stamp up all the swivo parts as "Made in England", so if it says "Made in the USA" I think it probably was. Your drum would appear to be a later one. If it was assembled 1966/67 would you not expect it to have an elongated strainer?
For an English Dyna yours looks spot on to me!
---
"You have to become the change you want to see in the World". - Mahatma Gandhi.
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2/19/2008, 4:25 am
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Powertone
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Re: English Built Dynasonic
Thanks Nutbox. Yours also looks spot on. I would have guessed yours to be the same as mine - that is all shipped over parts with the exception of the muffler. (But now I am learning the hoops and b&b lugs were made in England as well?)
Your snare frame is a first generation dyna frame as well. My guess is that they were sent over. Given the limited nature of the dyna, it wouldn't make sense for them to go to the trouble or expense to do aluminum castings in England when they already had a supplier in the U.S. The tall hoops look just like the tall hoops that were on the 60's and early 60's b&b drums. They switched over to a "standard" height hoop during the early beavertail era.
I agree that the strainers were undoubtedly shipped over, and the shells appear to be as well. The badge on the English dynas look like the earliest badges on the U.S. dynas, but without the serial number (which I understand wasn't a requirement).
I do not have a stamp on the inside of my shell - neither did the other version that I saw for sale.
I guess the mystery on these drums is just how many of the parts were shipped over to complete the drums. I suspect that on a specialty drum like the dyna, alot of the parts were shipped as it would have been too expensive to retool for them. That might account for the short run of the first generation frame. They made a few changes in developing the second generation frame and shipped the remaining lot of the first generation to England. Given the limited numbers of ER dynas, that was probably an ample supply.
Interesting stuff.
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2/19/2008, 6:23 am
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Nut Box
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Re: English Built Dynasonic
Powertone, I can't thank you enough for your input here I think this one is pretty much nailed down.
Shipping obviously took place of some parts and by the look of it in a far more complicated and ongoing way than most people have presented it.
I have always been suspicious of the idea that Rogers would ship over parts for Ajax to build drums, I was obviously wrong. In the way that most people talk about it the idea seems to be that Rogers ship parts in the early days to get Ajax up and running. If you were a Rogers executive would you send out parts in that way, without being sure that Ajax are at some point able to make a good copy of your parts? It does not sound like sound business practice to me. Added to this I have never seen any proof of it. The swivo parts all say "Made in England". And the early catalogues are apparently full of kits with a mixture of "Rogers" and Ajax fittings. We have established that Ajax made their own B&B lugs and rims, so what would you have to ship over? (apart from the snare strainers)
Shipping obviously took place but the picture is far more complicated.
---
"You have to become the change you want to see in the World". - Mahatma Gandhi.
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2/19/2008, 7:59 am
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Gary N
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Re: English Built Dynasonic
Nut Box and Powertone, Thanks for sharing this info. I'm printing these pages out and placing them in my Rogers book. The 3rd addition, if there ever is one, is going to be chunky full of Rogers! Peace, Gary
Last edited by Gary N, 2/19/2008, 9:52 am
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2/19/2008, 9:51 am
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Nut Box
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Re: English Built Dynasonic
Huh?.............now I'm speechless! Cheers Gary.
Powertone, do you have an approx. date for when the first generation frame would have stopped being used? Similarly when did they stop using the 7-line shell in the US?
Thanks.
---
"You have to become the change you want to see in the World". - Mahatma Gandhi.
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2/19/2008, 12:53 pm
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tommykat1
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Re: English Built Dynasonic
I, too, am hanging on every word, guys. This thread is too cool. I love it when members attempt to solve the lingering mysteries. English Rogers rule!
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2/19/2008, 1:13 pm
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Powertone
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Re: English Built Dynasonic
Nutbox, now you have me thinking. My guess would be that in the beginning, Rogers would have sent some parts to get things started as they wanted some consistancy between the two sides of the ocean. They wanted the ER identifiable as Rogers.
It also makes sense that it would be easier to supply some parts for the ER Dynas. Given the fact that the model was not produced in large numbers in England, it would be easier and more economical to supply items like the strainer and snare frame, rather than retool.
Swivo mounts and lugs, etc. would be a different story. They would be more widely used on more drums.
That brings me back to the dyna. I pulled out my 7 line dyna (#9212) and compared the two. Same strainer. The snare frame would not be the same as the first generation was used from #1001 - #1999 (according to the Rogers book). The other thing I noticed was the shells, while generally the same, did have one difference (besides placement of the muffler). Can you spot it?
I also compared the tall hoops from my early paper tag dyna (#3489) with the hoops from the English dyna.... Identical in every way - right down to the shape of the ears...
Conclusion: Even more confused. Some parts shipped? I am reasonably sure of the strainer and the snare frame. Hoops? Shell? I have no idea.
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2/19/2008, 4:07 pm
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Nut Box
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Re: English Built Dynasonic
Powertone, the difference in the shells I think you refer to is the depth of the engraving of the seven lines. I have always thought that the English shell did not have a great depth to the engraving. The US one is much more distinct. This could mean that the shell was made by Ajax?
The Dyna is out of the picture as far as the ER start up is concerned. The Dyna was not in the first catalogue in 1961. It appeared in the second catalogue in 1964. Exactly when it became available though is unclear. This was the reason for my asking if you could estimate dates for the US stopping the use of the 7-line shell and first generation frame.
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"You have to become the change you want to see in the World". - Mahatma Gandhi.
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2/19/2008, 4:24 pm
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