Nut Box
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Registered: 07-2007
Location: Leicestershire, England.
Posts: 387
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UK/USA Swivo Compatability
Whenever English Rogers are mentioned in books or on the net it is often said that the UK and USA Swivo fittings are incompatible. The reason for this is often sighted as being due to the 3/8th inch hexagonal bar being of slightly different sizes.
Without considering the USA bar for the moment I have already found that there is an incompatability between the bar size of the UK B&B lugged kits (1961-64) and the UK Beavertail lugged kits (1964-67). The latter is slightly smaller. The results of this are covered later. Also The Ploughman has said in a previous post :-
“All of my drums have original (as far as I know) USA parts. Recently I took my 64 kit, and somehow managed to grab the wrong hardware bag........ that which holds my 1980 Big R XP 8 Swivomatic kit, and the spurs ....... one wouldnt go in. I think the mounts I have on the XP8 kit are early, possible eagle badge swivo, and a slightly different size. So its not only on English mixing with USA that sometimes theres a problem.” So the problem may not be as simplistic as usually presented.
I got a selection of my Swivo parts together.
Before we get on to the size of the bar, here are some other observations.
1. The UK tom post is held onto the upper assembly by a grub screw rather than a pin.
2. In the UK the bar is clamped on the angle of the bar not on the flat. (Question: Is it always clamped on the flat in the USA?)
3. The US set screws fit the UK mount.
4. The US collet nose fits the UK collet and visa versa, the thread is the same.
5. The UK nose as far as I know was always machined, not cast.
6. Collet Plates
The coach bolt spacing of UK Beavertail collet plate matches that of the US.
The coach bolt spacing of the UK B&B collet does not. The spacing of the short axis is less by about 16th inch each side. Two holes would have to be elongated in order to swop plates.
Hex Bar Sizes.
The largest of the bars would appear to be the UK B&B followed by the USA and then the UK Beavertail.
The UK B&B bar will - not fit in a UK Beavertail collet at all, it is too big.
- fit snugly in the USA collet and will clamp.
The UK Beavertail bar will - not clamp in a UK B&B collet.
- easily fit in the USA collet and should clamp.
The USA bar will - fit and may clamp into a UK B&B collet, but not always.
- fit into a UK Beavertail collet and should clamp.
In manufacturing it is impossible to make anything to an absolute exact size. Things are made to tolerances. Or to put it another way; to within limits. So there is always going to be slight variation in size. With the parts that I used the USA bar mixed well with the UK Beavertail collets but not so well with the UK B&B collets.
So, are the USA and UK Swivo fittings compatable? There appears to be more compatibility between the USA bar and the UK bars than there is between the UK B&B and UK Beavertail bars.
If you are still with me and awake, I thank you and direct you to my disclaimer. The above is based upon parts available at the time and I accept no responsibility for anyone elses parts not behaving in the same way.
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"You have to become the change you want to see in the World". - Mahatma Gandhi.
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3/16/2008, 10:51 am
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musicbybj
ROF Drum Head
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Registered: 04-2007
Location: Missoula, MT
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Re: UK/USA Swivo Compatability
WOW! You are on a roll Nut Box! Very good photos and very useful information. Thanks.
Jack
--- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another" Buddha
Rogers Owners Forum Web Site |
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3/16/2008, 11:25 am
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tommykat1
XP10 Dyna-Sonic Member
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Registered: 06-2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3292
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Re: UK/USA Swivo Compatability
Nutbox, this is some very important cataloguing of USA vs UK Rogers idiosyncracies.
I love the technical details, and you take the cake. You are on your own in the UK and you're carrying your load well. I sure hope some other English Rogers fanatics join us sometime soon.
The fact that you've taken the time to do this is what makes this the best drum forum of all.
Thank you, Nutbox!
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3/16/2008, 9:55 pm
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Nut Box
Luxor Member
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Registered: 07-2007
Location: Leicestershire, England.
Posts: 387
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Re: UK/USA Swivo Compatibility
Just an after thought, a bit pedantic I know, but there was obviously a change in the UK bar size at some time. I don't know when. It probably did not happen neatly between the B&B and Beavertail kits as I appear to have presented it above.
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"You have to become the change you want to see in the World". - Mahatma Gandhi.
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3/17/2008, 10:47 am
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