SHJIHM :: The Blessed Trinity :: Conceptions of the Trinity ~ Runboard
"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing." -Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
Placating terrorists, meeting with dictators, compassion for murderers... but no humanity for the unborn... incredible.
OOT
Conceptions of the Trinity Hi, lately I've come across the assertion that in Western theology, the Father is conceived of as Arche of all Being, while the Logos corresponds to Reason and the Holy Spirit to Will. I first ran across this in the Catholic Encyclopedia, and I find the line of thought to be beautiful. Has there been any contemporary writing that develops or reasserts this conception, and is this view still common in the Church?
Re: Conceptions of the Trinity Great Tom . Check out the Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Trinity. Heres the relevant part, speaking of St. Augustine, but it's all very interesting:
By indicating the analogy between the two processions within the Godhead and the internal acts of thought and will in the human mind (De Trin., IX, iii, 3; X, xi, 17), he became the founder of the psychological theory of the Trinity, which, with a very few exceptions, was accepted by every subsequent Latin writer.
I've come acrossed it implicitly in The Cloud of Unknowing and The Ascent of Mt. Carmel, but I haven't seen it laid out explicitly yet. Please let me know if you find it developed in depth anywhere.
Conceptions of the Trinity In the words of St Athanasius:
"It is the very tradition, teaching and faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, the Apostles preached and the Fathers kept upon which the Church is founded ... that there is a Trinity, Holy and complete, confessed to be God in Father, Son and Holy Spirit, having nothing foreign or external, nor composed of one who creates and one who is originated, but all creative, consistent, indivisible in nature, one in activity. The Father does all things through the Word in the Holy Spirit. Thus, the Unity of the Holy Trinity is preserved and thus One God is preached in the Church, who is over all and through all and in all (Eph 4.16) - "over all" as Father, as beginning and fountain; "through all" through the Word; but "in all" in the Holy Spirit. It is a Trinity not only in name and form of speech, but in truth and actuality. For as the Father is he who he is, so also his Word is one who is God over all, and the Holy Spirit is not without existence but truly exists and subsists." (Ad Ser. 1.28)
--- "My Sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
Re: Conceptions of the Trinity I'm sure my wording was inexact, but I'm not myself saying, or claiming that any Catholic theologians have said, that the three Personalities of the Trinity differ in substance or external operation.
Re: Conceptions of the Trinity In the last couple of days and after a few google-ing efforts, I have not found anything contemporary that would fit under this topic...but I'll keep looking.
The original discourse from St. Augustine is good reading if/when you get in the mood to plow through 15 [!!] books.
My concern is that there were heresies that tried to imagine the Trinity as something other than Father Son and Spirit.
Oh, okay . Yes, i have to be careful with the language I use, because I don't have an education in theology; I just grope my way through areas that interest me. I tried to guard against that by saying "corresponds too" and speaking of analogies. [edit: I did say "conceived of as" didn't ? D'oh!] I can definitely see the concern and I appreciate having the issues involved brought to my attention and having these distinctions sharpened. I thought you might be moving in a different direction, so thank you for the clarification.
quote:
The original discourse from St. Augustine is good reading if/when you get in the mood to plow through 15 [!!] books.
Oh, dear, I think that will have to go on the back burner.
Out of curiousity, have you all ever tried to do a "book club" type thing, where everybody reads the same book and discusses it? Something a mite less ambitious then "On the Holy Trinity" maybe?
Conceptions of the Trinity Tom, I in no way thought at all you were applying something different to the Trinity. My concern was as you have understood correctly, the terminology.
A book club sounds like a real great idea. Your a breath of fresh air my friend
--- "My Sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
