SHJIHM :: Miscellaneous Apologetics :: Paul vs. Jesus- Davis Danizier refuted ~ Runboard
"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing." -Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
Placating terrorists, meeting with dictators, compassion for murderers... but no humanity for the unborn... incredible.
OOT
Paul vs. Jesus- Davis Danizier refuted A very lengthy refutation of Bible "scholar" Davis Danizier by former Marine Chaplain Paul Bishop can be found here:
Re: … I doubt everyone who makes the case actually believes it. This theory has been thoroughly discredited time and again. I think a lot of people just like kicking against the Church and forcing Christians into hours of pointless research. Most anti-Christian polemics are disingenuous, but the amount of time it takes to bat down a cut-and-paste conspiracy hit job leads to much of it going unchallenged.
Sadly, I think the Catholic Church doesn't do a good enough job with Christian apologetics. They are very good with Catholic-specific apologetics, but the time and effort spent dealing with specious "Catholics worship the Pope" slurs ties us up to a great extent. It's a pity, because we have so many resources- the Vatican library most of all, and a good grounding in the Church Fathers and early Church history for Catholic theologians. Most of this stuff is so silly that our best and brightest don't bother with it, leaving the simple faithful defenseless. It's a shame that I find myself going more to the evangelical tektonics.org than than the Catholic evangelizationstation.com when I find myself embroiled in some specious internet argument.
Re: Paul vs. Jesus- Davis Danizier refuted Hmmm...
I find it hard to believe that someone would sit back and say, hey, lets raz the Catholics today, and make them look stuff up to defend their faith.
As well, given the words Christ used, and the words Paul used, the two being different people, I am sure that people have very good reasons for seeing them as different. In all reality, even if the Church is on the path Christ intended, being that it is run by humans, I highly doubt that it is everything he would WANT it to be. We are fallible, after all.
Even to the fact that the Church following Paul is based on a statement about the Church being built on a rock, moments after that rock was scolded with the phrase "Get thee behind me, Satan".
The fact that the Gospels that aren't included, and are put into the mainstream nowadays, have people reading of how Paul scorned Mary Magdalene because she was a woman (true or not, it doesn't matter in this instance). Reading something like this makes them doubt Paul, which makes them think "That would be something that the Church would not want people to know", adding more doubt to the cycle.
It is like a person being accused of rape. Whether they win in court or not, the damage done to the reputation is already there and festering.
My point being, people have definite reasons for believing as they believe. If one does not believe in the Trinity, and the truth of the Bible, they could very easily look at the book and see two completely different stances with Paul and Jesus. People see what they want to see. You want to see union of faith, they want to see a reason not to let their lives be run by the church, because that is how they feel.
People's courses of action seldom make sense to others, but there is almost always a train of thought there that is understandable if you know the whole story.
Re: Paul vs. Jesus- Davis Danizier refuted In truth, I am truly sorry for that. Though I fully understand the consternation some people may have with Catholocism, I can now say, effectively, that it is likely through misunderstanding.
At long last, though it is actually a random article I stumbled upon about why a person should confess, I think I understand the Catholic point of view, though I am not sure if I can totally agree with it.
That has to do with that which is in me, not that which is of Catholocism, or any other faith for that matter. I have a need to question.
Why the turnaround, some may ask? I will explain.
In thinking of Confession, I realized its merit, not as something that God requires, but something that is good for us. A fail safe. An aid in our salvation. Why does one confess?
It gives you a feeling you are doing something to improve yourself as a Christian. You are actively exercising your faith, showing yourself that in sharing your wrongs, you truly do want to be better.
You feel that you get the matter off your chest, you hear the kind voice of the priest telling you that you would forgive you - to my perrspective, not forgiving you, but guiding you, and letting you know that Christ does forgive such things. A confirmation for your own confidence and spirit, if you will.
In one that practices often, it adds to your resolve, and spiritual strength, challenging you to soar to greater heights of spirituality.
It is letting those who have the experience and focus on the spiritual, the outside perspective as well, guide you in that which you wish to attain - not to control you, but to help you achieve spiritual peace. Though I believe some priests have fallen astray, and take the oppotunity, not to guide, but to influence people as well, I believe the guidance to be very important.
So now I understand, I think, why it is not that the Priest forgives, as well as understanding a reconciliation to the Church. In this way, the verse in the NT about Christ telling his disciples to confess one to another had a two fold meaning - one, that it is important to share your wrongs, so that you might truly be forgiven, and that the problem be resolved, and also, that those who are most knowledgeable about the faith would likely be best suited to guide one if they are in doubt about what they are doing to resolve their sins.
As for the celibacy of priests, please do not see this as being brash, but I see it as the fact that, a man with sex on his mind, who has not trained his body and spirit to neglect such needs, is not likely to have an unbiased opinion, and would be more susceptible to diversion, and temptation, as one temptation is like another. How can one have the proper experience to serve effectively if they do not dedicate their entire being to it? Soldier's of Christ indeed. A minister that was in my church as a child was a good example... he is now no longer a minister, and is married to my cousin who is 25 or more years his junior... we do see the same in the Catholic clergy, I am sure, but perhaps these people were not as disciplined, and did succumb to temptations, but were adept at hiding it from an early age.
However, the only idea that I can see for not allowing Women to be priests is because they are the mothers of children, and that is an important role of mankind, to multiply. However, there are nuns, too...
Praying to saints, which links to confession to a certain degree, an epiphany from my girlfriend, actually - A biblical chain of command. I am not going to speak to the Colonel about a minor problem. He has people that I can speak with that are specialized and will work things through the right channels. An effective metaphor, I think, though it is a bit foggy, as it all must eventually go through Christ. But again, soldier's of Christ indeed.
Though, in truth, I still see much of what is done as being ceremony, I think it is important, and can see why it is done - it is important because of what it gives the faithful. A person believes in it, and it gives them strength and community, and I think that is beautiful.
However, I would like to address one other thing here - one thing that many people I have spoken with agree to. Religious manners. In speaking of faith, one can believe all they want that theirs is the proper way, and that those who don't follow it cannot be saved, or cannot be good examples for others. To say so blatantly is very rude. One should use tact when possible, as to do otherwise is unkind.
In truth, I am truly sorry for that. Though I fully understand the consternation some people may have with Catholocism, I can now say, effectively, that it is likely through misunderstanding.
Thank you my friend. I truly believe in What Bishop Fulton Sheen once said....
...."There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing."
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At long last, though it is actually a random article I stumbled upon about why a person should confess, I think I understand the Catholic point of view, though I am not sure if I can totally agree with it.
It is your quest for the Truth my friend guided by the Holy Spirit that has led you to this point. And I say AMEN
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Why the turnaround, some may ask?
I don't see it as a turn around, or an abandoning of any of your views. It is precisely your determination for the Truth that has brought you to this point. I dare say it shall not be the last.
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Why does one confess.....You are actively exercising your faith, showing yourself that in sharing your wrongs, you truly do want to be better.
Exactly my friend. Living our faith is a very important aspect of Catholicism.
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you hear the kind voice of the priest telling you that you would forgive you - to my perrspective, not forgiving you, but guiding you, and letting you know that Christ does forgive such things. A confirmation for your own confidence and spirit, if you will.
Most certainly a confirmation for your own confidence and spirit. Jesus forgave in person. Why? Because as humans we NEED the tangible. We need to hear the words of forgiveness. It's how we are able to move on. In your quest to understand confession, please consider who exactly is forgiving the confessor. Although we may hear a kind voice speaking Words of absolution to us, we are truly being forgiven by Christ.
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Though I believe some priests have fallen astray, and take the opportunity, not to guide
Man is quite fallible. And unfortunately there will always be men of God who do not LIVE their faith.
Thank you for sharing this with us Lauchlin. Your interpretation is quite beautiful.
--- "My Sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
