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I Simonius
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Noise and sharpening
I am having trouble knowing how to deal with noise in shadows
It seesm to me that my 5D2 is noisier than my old 5D1. I notice it in clouds and foilage shadows. Well I might expect it in the foliage and building shadows but it is really annoying to get it in the clouds. Obvioulsy it is worse when they are slightly underexposed, but it is a surprise to me how obvious it seesm even with a minus 1 stop underexposure
any advice anyone?
thanks
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Mac PPC Dual 2.3, 6GB Ram, LR2.5 , PsCS4 11.0.1, 5Dmk2 fw 1.1.0,
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27/May/09, 8:49 am
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crimbo
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Re: Noise and sharpening
download a trial version of Capture One 4 ...
why?
I have found that it deals very well with noise and sharpening ... no its not perfect but for my Oly 400 its very good ... think the 5DII is supported
try it ... it may help reduce the problem
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Chris
60N
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http://www.paddle.shetland.co.uk
http://www.paddle.shetland.co.uk/my%20piccys/index.htm
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27/May/09, 4:20 pm
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martinimages
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Re: Noise and sharpening
Noise is as you stated more prevalent in shadows, for BW workers this is not as bad a problem as for colour work, however, its still a problem for some. My advice is this. based on my own experience, always sharpen as pros do, SELECTIVLY, do not sharpen BW images until you have finished processing the conversion, I rarely sharpen skies and never in deep shadows, sharpening only accentuates the problem.
Try to create a very good colour image, this is the MASTER FILE, if you have pushed that to the limits then your on to a loser when trying to convert, if you have a camera that produces noise more than others it will be necessary in lots of case to make the colour master from more than on file, two at a minimum where the shadows are correctly exposed and highlights are in tact, them blend the together,
Another way is to identify what type of noise your camera is making
There are two types , Chroma or colour noise like little speckles of colour
And there's Luminance noise
Chroma noise is the one to get rid of, if its a Raw file then moving the colour noise reduction slider till the speckles go.
If your doing it with a JPEG or a processed MASTER colour and there is still noise then PS can reduce it by duplicating the image, then in the layer palette change from normal to colour, your now dealing with colour info only. then go to filter, blur, Gaussian blur, enter around 8px radius, click OK, the noise should be much better now, you can then maybe add grain from whatever software you use or do it in PS to further mask it.
I am very surprised that a camera like the 5dmk2 does this, sometimes its not the camera but user error in trying to push exposures beyond the limits of design
Martin
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27/May/09, 6:09 pm
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I Simonius
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Re: Noise and sharpening
cheers Martin 
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Mac PPC Dual 2.3, 6GB Ram, LR2.5 , PsCS4 11.0.1, 5Dmk2 fw 1.1.0,
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27/May/09, 6:39 pm
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JustDave
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Re: Noise and sharpening
When are you seing the noise Simon. 100% view or at 50%? A lot of the noise we will see on screen at higher magnifications is not going to show on print. Maybe you could give us a 100% crop of a cloud and a shadow to look at. I have read a lot about this in forums, and it seems it is not a problem in print, more in pixal peeking on the screen.
Regards,
Dave
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27/May/09, 8:21 pm
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martinimages
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Re: Noise and sharpening
quote:
JustDave wrote:
When are you seing the noise Simon. 100% view or at 50%? A lot of the noise we will see on screen at higher magnifications is not going to show on print. Maybe you could give us a 100% crop of a cloud and a shadow to look at. I have read a lot about this in forums, and it seems it is not a problem in print, more in pixal peeking on the screen.
Regards,
Dave
Dave your quite correct in this, or in part, if you print on matt papers with fine texture you can really get away with noise, it is very forgiving, however do the same on gloss papers and your in trouble as every mark, noise shows, more so in colour than BW obviously.
Pixel peepers will never be happy chappy's, viewing images at 400% and detecting faults, you got to laugh at that 
Martin
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27/May/09, 8:46 pm
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JustDave
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Re: Noise and sharpening
I see your point on the glossy paper Martin.
The pixal peepers seem to be the most vocal on most of the boards, and it makes it difficult to get a good read on a sensors ability as they always seem to have something bad to say. I much prefer to talk to someone who actually prints their pictures to see how the camera works in reality  (and the reason I ask you so much about your cameras). The 5D MKII is on my short list, and as I have said before, I will most likely have to rent the cameras I am looking at and put them through their paces.
Regards,
Dave
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27/May/09, 8:59 pm
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martinimages
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Re: Noise and sharpening
I have only edited files from the 5dmk2 on a workshop, the guy used one,they seemed Ok to me,the MK3 files seemed better to me, but maybe thats because I am used to it, i fact I would go far as to say the MK3 files are better than the 1dsmk2 i have, you can crop them just the same even though there nearly 7 million pix smaller. The big advantage for the 5dmk2 is that ability to print big without up sizing.
Tell you what I have found out since getting the 1dsmk2 you have to be more careful in taking shots, its the resolving power that shows more mistakes than the lower pix cams, if Simon getting a lot if noise in the shadows it suggests to me that more care is needed in actual taking stage especially in exposure, I can seem to get away with some awful exposed shots with the MK3 but not the 1dsmk2, maybe its because technoligy makes it better, I don't know really but, these cam makers don't make it easy for us 
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27/May/09, 9:27 pm
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JustDave
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Re: Noise and sharpening
Just reading this again Simon. You are comparing the noise in the new 5d to the old. Are you viewing the new file at 100% on screen? To really compare, you need to downrez the 5D MKII to the 12mp to do a like comparison. 100% view on screen at native resolution between the two cameras means nothing. Apples to oranges. Because it is a higher resolution camera it will have more noise at 100% then the original 5D. The 1DS MKIII would show more noise at a 100% view if not resized.
On another note, I have read that some people feel that some of the banding that has shown up is from electrical interferance. ie. certain lenses focus motors running during the shot, low battery level, etc. Apparently the original 5D had a problem with interferance from some lenses that was later taken care of.
Just some thoughts.
Regards,
Dave
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10/Jun/09, 3:42 pm
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Bill Allsopp
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Re: Noise and sharpening
Only useful comment i can make is that the noise in jpegs from the 5D mk2 is terrible. I've seen one pro refer to these as the worst jpeg's he has seen; but I assume you shoot RAW Simon?
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Bill Allsopp
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10/Jun/09, 3:45 pm
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