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crimbo
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Do you print?
Martin, Crimbo and JustDave are getting together a group of prints to compare results.
What happens when you get a real keeper and you want to print it to frame and put on the wall? where do you send your file to to get the quality of print it deserves
The idea is to compare different operators, different printers and different lab prints ... do you print?
want to see if what you get is good enough and cost effective?
Well ask me to send you a file
Print or get it printed at 10x8
We will get them all together and and pass them round
I will collate the opinions
Result...you will find out what a good print is and what is cost effective for you
the more prints from different printers or labs the more we will all learn
Does Martin do the best prints? Is a lab print good enough?
Wanna find out?
Join Now ....contact me
(yes there are costs in getting the image printed and then posted to Martin to get them all together then posting them on to the next person)
and as a postscript ... there is no right and wrong here I can tell you that already there is a disagreement between a photographer and a non-photographer/consumer...yes you should ask your spouse/mates/ local publican/cat/dog what they think...
---
Chris
60N
1W
http://www.paddle.shetland.co.uk
http://www.paddle.shetland.co.uk/my%20piccys/index.htm
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9/Oct/09, 5:00 pm
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martinimages
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Re: Do you print?
Well got three prints from Chris my own printed version of Chris's file, one from Ilford and the third from Photobox, and awaiting one from Dave,
Here is an assessment of them, not by me but others, a selection of photographic and non photographic people.
The prints where passed around and I asked there thoughts on sharpness, black and white “punch”, neutrality and overall look and feel.
3rd Ilford came out worse, lacking in sharpness and contrast, low D-Max, light magenta cast in the shadows, obvious cheaper end paper
2nd was Photobox, strong blue~cyan cast, contrast and D-max fair, sharpness slightly better than the Ilford, cheaper consumer paper
1st Is the hand print I did on Harman FBA1, neutral in all areas, no colour cast, strong but controlled contrast, best D-max, paper quality superior in every aspect, no metamarism
All three observations where not from me, but my own assessment would be the same, I might also add that both Ilford and Photobox papers suffer from metamarism, in fact they looked better under tungsten light than natural daylight. It’s that old adage “you get what you pays for” the prints from both Ilford and Photobox would be fine for general snaps. Anyone serious about there work and wanting to show others or exhibit would have to go for the fine art papers, I would think that images printed by these two Labs on matt papers would fair just as bad if not worse.
In fairness the Harman would be expected to print out better considering the cost per sheet and it was handprinted by me, having said that I can print neutral prints on the cheaper papers without any colour casts, its time these people recognized the popularity in mono prints which most people seem to like better than colour hanging on the walls and get the output better, why do they assume everyone wants colour ! after all who wants Black and white prints that have blue~cyan or magenta casts that change in tint as the day passes, surly if I can, in my humble setup beat the top guys at there own game, they could do better I am sure, but its all about $£ and no one gives a £$it, pay a quid and you get a quids worth, that about sums it up.
Thats mine and other peoples assessment so far, so lets wait and see what other comments we get as the prints are posted around.
Martin
For those not familiar with the term metamarism, this is how different light source's [temperatures] reflect of a photo paper surface, the neutrality is affected, and changes the paper hue, usually to a magenta or cyan tint
Last edited by martinimages, 9/Oct/09, 5:37 pm
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9/Oct/09, 5:15 pm
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martinimages
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Re: Do you print?
As an after thought and as pointed out by Chris "what would the file print out like with no manipulation from me"
as per file sent to me, I will print it on matt paper and lustre paper will not edit it in anyway, both papers are run of the mill at the cheaper end of the paper price scale, will post the results later when prints have dried enough for evaluation,
Martin
--- One to one workshop in monochrome, from capture to fine art print, printing service available
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9/Oct/09, 6:03 pm
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crimbo
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Re: Do you print?
quote:
martinimages wrote:
... its time these people recognized the popularity in mono prints which most people seem to like better than colour hanging on the walls and get the output better, why do they assume everyone wants colour ! ...
Martin
]
In fairness to Ilford their service is a monochrome only service which is why the file that is sent is a jpg with a monochrome profile
I am reserving my comments to the group until all have sent theirs to me to collate
anybody else?
---
Chris
60N
1W
http://www.paddle.shetland.co.uk
http://www.paddle.shetland.co.uk/my%20piccys/index.htm
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9/Oct/09, 6:43 pm
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martinimages
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Re: Do you print?
OK printed and dried
Seems that Ilford where on a loser[ literally Chris lol] to start with so no more comments on there output
Test 1/ printed on Epson Achival matt
The print with no manipulation has a neutral tone, no metamarism, sharpe and detail in every tonal range with no colour cast the paper alone works out at approx 26p per sheet.
Test2/ Epson lustre
Again no manipulation, exhibits contrast slightly lower than the one from Photobox but exhibits a sharper better detailed tonal range, no metamarism or colour cast, cost per sheet aprox 18p.
All in all the prints from my modest printer are still much better than the Labs.
The question has to be asked ,why is this so, again it boils down to profit and loss, printer manufacturers don't make money from their printers its the ink that's the sting in the tail, Labs concern there selves with turnover and profit, keep the prices cheap = big turnover, buy cheap = big profits. The printers they use must be of a high quality but the papers and inks are much less so = bad output, I bet the papers per sheet work out at fractions of a pence. Its a shame for photogs that don't print their own work as the realization of the actual quality of there work never materializes from labs. We spend hundreds if not thousands of pounds on expensive photo equipment only to be let down at the most important place , the print. I really think that there target is the happy snapper that just not interested in quality and never recognize a bad print from a good one, so again you get what you pay for, if you are happy with there output then go for it, if not use a specialized lab who will take loving care and interest in your work, pay the price and be happy 
Martin
Chris Prints are on there way to you, I will also send Dave them
Last edited by martinimages, 9/Oct/09, 7:06 pm
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9/Oct/09, 6:58 pm
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crimbo
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Re: Do you print?
Machine lab prints are usually printed on a traditional silver halide based paper.
the file controls lasers that put the light on to the paper
Many lab printers use the Fuji Frontier system that has coloured lasers which are mixed and intensity controlled...
I am not sure their is a specific monochrome lab printer and hence the problem with colour casts
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Chris
60N
1W
http://www.paddle.shetland.co.uk
http://www.paddle.shetland.co.uk/my%20piccys/index.htm
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9/Oct/09, 7:25 pm
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crimbo
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Re: Do you print?
Any one else want to join in?
---
Chris
60N
1W
http://www.paddle.shetland.co.uk
http://www.paddle.shetland.co.uk/my%20piccys/index.htm
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9/Oct/09, 7:26 pm
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martinimages
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Re: Do you print?
quote:
crimbo wrote:
Machine lab prints are usually printed on a traditional silver halide based paper.
the file controls lasers that put the light on to the paper
Many lab printers use the Fuji Frontier system that has coloured lasers which are mixed and intensity controlled...
I am not sure their is a specific monochrome lab printer and hence the problem with colour casts
That answers it Chris
--- One to one workshop in monochrome, from capture to fine art print, printing service available
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9/Oct/09, 7:41 pm
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JustDave
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Re: Do you print?
Allright everyone. Martin recieved the last print today and will be sending them off to me. I think there is a lot of value to a lot of people on this board to see side by side the effect of the printing process on your images. Even if you print your own images, this is a chance to compare to Martin, and see if there are areas you can improve in. Step up folks, this is a great opportunity.
Regards,
Dave
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10/Oct/09, 3:46 pm
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crimbo
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Re: Do you print?
We have another joining us...so come on folks... this will show you how good your printing really is and for those who are unsure it will show what can be achieved...
come send me your e-mail address
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Chris
60N
1W
http://www.paddle.shetland.co.uk
http://www.paddle.shetland.co.uk/my%20piccys/index.htm
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11/Oct/09, 6:41 am
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