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flux
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Re: Along Came a Spider - The Master Alice Cooper returns to form!
all excellent points, well thought out and presented. I agree the character of Alice has evolved but originally it was 'shock' and yes, debauchery. I don't think Marylin Manson's claims that his backstatge would earn him passes to Hell even comapres to what went on backstage on Alice Cooper's Billion Dollar Babies tour. Alice said he would drink a case of beer in one sitting and not even feel it. How he survived that time is a miracle.
I kno about Vincent's philanthropic ways. I've tried contacting him to invite him to check out a faith based concert venue in my town, but haven't heard back. Ken Hensley's another 70's rocker with a strong faith today. He chooses to be quiet
It's interesting, but it seems most the guys who have experienced the excess of Rock stardom in the 70's and then embraced the Christian faith have done so quietly. Kerry Livgren of Kansas is a good example. Richard Furray pastors a church but it's not in your face. It's quiet.
I feel that light needs to shine and not be kept hidden.
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7/11/2008, 11:14 pm
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tkitna
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Re: Along Came a Spider - The Master Alice Cooper returns to form!
Speaking of Kansas, David Hope (their original bass player) is also connected to a church (I forget where right now) and I read where somebody wanted to join that church and they wanted him to pay to join.
Not even church is free anymore.
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7/11/2008, 11:30 pm
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Ratmannnn
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Re: Along Came a Spider - The Master Alice Cooper returns to form!
On the classic 70's rock station today during request hour I heard a song and said "Tahts Alice Cooper". But it was song I never heard. Something about "You knew I was gonna steal this car". It was catchy, upbeat, classic Alice. Afterwards the dj said "New from Alice Cooper"!
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7/11/2008, 11:57 pm
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Ricketay
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Re: Along Came a Spider - The Master Alice Cooper returns to form!
quote:
flux wrote:
all excellent points, well thought out and presented. I agree the character of Alice has evolved but originally it was 'shock' and yes, debauchery. I don't think Marylin Manson's claims that his backstatge would earn him passes to Hell even comapres to what went on backstage on Alice Cooper's Billion Dollar Babies tour. Alice said he would drink a case of beer in one sitting and not even feel it. How he survived that time is a miracle.
I kno about Vincent's philanthropic ways. I've tried contacting him to invite him to check out a faith based concert venue in my town, but haven't heard back. Ken Hensley's another 70's rocker with a strong faith today. He chooses to be quiet
It's interesting, but it seems most the guys who have experienced the excess of Rock stardom in the 70's and then embraced the Christian faith have done so quietly. Kerry Livgren of Kansas is a good example. Richard Furray pastors a church but it's not in your face. It's quiet.
I feel that light needs to shine and not be kept hidden.
I agree that much of the impetus behind early Alice was shock - but he also saw it as a necessary antithesis to the phoniness of most of the flower power stuff going on around him. And, certainly, the decadence was undeniable - though, interestingly enough, they never cussed on record or stage; they never featured nudity onstage; and they never seemed to write raunchy lyrics, like so many bands tend to do, just to offend or be controversial. There are, obviously, a lot of things about that time of his life that he's not proud of (and that are genuinely deserving of criticism) - just as there are some songs he won't perform anymore because of the lyrics (mostly from his hair metal albums - circa mid to late '80s - I think). I also agree that it's a miracle he survived drinking the amount of alcohol he did (which all started, innocently enough, when somebody gave him a Coors at a party).
Marilyn Manson has, obviously, done a lot of the same kinds of stuff (shock-wise) that Alice did - he just took it a lot further. I also think he's often misunderstood in a similar way. I think Manson is more intelligent than most people think, and a lot of his stuff (like Alice's) is meant as social commentary. What I don't think he has is Alice's sense of humor and irony (e.g., Manson never seems to be self-depricating). He's definitely more sacriligious than Alice ever was; he seems to be more sexually perverse; he seems to have partaken of a wider range of chemicals (Alice was mainly a drinker). But sin is sin, so a lot of those points are kind of moot.
One thing that I don't think is in question: Manson's song's are nowhere near as good as Alice's. (And I don't think MM will be making quality music 30+ years from now.)
I have a lot of respect for Kerry Livrgen - musically and personally. I read his autobiography (Seeds Of Change), years ago, and dig some of his post-conversion stuff. And I really, REALLY like his recent stuff with Proto-Kaw (I even like it more than a lot of his Kansas stuff). And since he expresses his faith on every album he releases (including Kansas' Somewhere To Elsewhere), he can hardly be accused of hiding the light. (Plus, Kerry always sang about his spiritual quest, so it's no big leap for him to sing about the truth he's found.)
I didn't know about Ken Hensley, but am thrilled to hear it. I think Frank Marino (of Mahogany Rush fame) has been a believer for years - and Rick Wakeman, as well.
I think the reason most famous converts don't seem to be more outsoken about their faith is because they know from experience how anything they say can get twisted and be misunderstood. They're also wary of being held up as unrealistic examples or role-models just because they're famous. Plus, it's inappropriate to use the stage to preach to people who have paid to see a concert (unless they know beforehand that it's coming) - just as it would be inappropriate to start preaching to customers and co-workers at your place of employment. Too many Christians are addicted to celebrity testimonies (i.e., they'd rather hear from a celebrity that was saved six months ago, than from a mature, devout, holy nobody who's been a faithful disciple for forty years).
Early in his life as a Christian, Alice was asked if he'd come speak at a church. He agreed to. But when he arrived, the marquee read (in huge letters), "ALICE COOPER SPEAKS" - then, below that (in much smaller letters), "about Jesus." It bothered him so much, to see his name so much larger than Jesus', that he vowed never to let that happen again. But he's not shy about his faith, he just doesn't preach from the concert stage (which is completely appropriate, because to presume to preach - just because you have an audience, rather than because you are genuinely called to - is to risk making a mockery of the gifts of the Spirit).
Also, most artists (obviously) express themselves through their art. Usually what they write about are things they have some personal knowledge of or experience with. Drawing inspiration from one's pre-Christian life is always easier, because that's what the writer knows best - they've usually got decades of experience to draw from. It may take years before a new Christian is able to write anything worth releasing about their faith - and on this, I speak from personal experience. (Unfortunately, there are a lot of crappy songs being written by Christians whose faith isn't mature enough or deep enough for them to produce anything very good.)
Maybe Alice will accept your invitation. I know he has been to various faith-based venues and community centers around the country to see which ones are doing it right. He seems determined to avoid making the kinds of mistakes that so often undermine such endeavors. The community center he's involved with building will be Christian based, but they won't be forcing that down people's throats.
Rick Wakeman is involved in a community center in England, and I've seen that (as well as his faith) mentioned in interviews. I've seen Frank Marino and Kerry Livgren discuss their faith in interviews. So I don't think it's fair to assume these people are hiding the light they've found, just because you don't see them using the stage or the media as their pulpit/soapbox (remember: they're artists - not preachers or politicians).
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7/15/2008, 4:46 pm
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Ricketay
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Re: Along Came a Spider - The Master Alice Cooper returns to form!
quote:
tkitna wrote:
Speaking of Kansas, David Hope (their original bass player) is also connected to a church (I forget where right now) and I read where somebody wanted to join that church and they wanted him to pay to join.
Not even church is free anymore.
Yeah, Dave played in Kerry's post-Kansas band AD (he became a Christian shortly after Kerry).
That's very strange, that a church would charge someone to join (that's more like something a cult might do). I wonder what the whole story is.
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7/15/2008, 4:54 pm
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Ricketay
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Re: Along Came a Spider - The Master Alice Cooper returns to form!
quote:
Ratmannnn wrote:
On the classic 70's rock station today during request hour I heard a song and said "Tahts Alice Cooper". But it was song I never heard. Something about "You knew I was gonna steal this car". It was catchy, upbeat, classic Alice. Afterwards the dj said "New from Alice Cooper"!
"Everybody knows - I'm gonna steal that car
My reputation shows - I'm gonna steal that car
I did some time in '99
I'll do some time agaiiiiiin
Everybody knows - I'm gonna steal that caaaaarrrr"
Wow! I'm shocked that any station played anything new by Alice (because radio generally sucks). I'm also kind of impressed (but only kind of, because that song is three years old, and Alice has a new album coming out in two weeks).
"Steal That Car" is off the Dirty Diamonds album. Great album. The only weak song is one the record label tacked on the end called "Stand" (it's with rapper Xzibit, it was originally released on a various artists compilation charity CD, and it does NOT fit on DD - but it does nothing to diminish the overall album). Highly recommended.
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7/15/2008, 5:26 pm
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flux
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Re: Along Came a Spider - The Master Alice Cooper returns to form!
Costs are high and giving is decreasing. I guess I'm tecnically being charged for attending my church. I tithe regularly.
I just read a quote from John Lennon from an interview he gave in 1969 where he said The Beatles were a Christian band and that he wanted nothing more than to bring Christ's message to others. He went on the knock organized religion but I need to do some research and find out if this interview actualy took place.
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7/15/2008, 9:19 pm
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Ratmannnn
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Re: Along Came a Spider - The Master Alice Cooper returns to form!
Probably from one of those English satire paoers. I get e-mails with silly stories all the time!
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7/15/2008, 9:31 pm
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flux
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Re: Along Came a Spider - The Master Alice Cooper returns to form!
no the information came from Walrus Gumboot and that has always been pretty accurate with Beatle news.
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7/15/2008, 9:34 pm
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Ratmannnn
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Re: Along Came a Spider - The Master Alice Cooper returns to form!
Bastages!
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7/15/2008, 9:40 pm
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