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KayJaye
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Location: SW Wyoming
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Re: I want to do homeschooling
I know I'm new here, so I hope I won't create too many waves with this post.... but I just
cringed at some of the advice and information given in this thread. Please excuse
me if I ramble in this post! I homeschool my 2 children (ages 8 and 5). First of all,
there is no "right" way to homeschool.... it is not necessarily a full time job
(dependant on your goals, your children, your style, and what materials you use), and
you don't have to have any special training to do it. The first thing that people tend to
forget, is that homeschooling should not be like classroom schooling, if you're going
to make it just the same, then why homeschool? There are tons of resources on the
net as well as just about anywhere else for homeschoolers, you don't have to spend
hours and hours making up lesson plans unless you want to, you don't have to spend
7 or 8 hours a day doing schoolwork to be legitimate and actually teach your
children. Most homeschooled children spend only a few hours a day doing actual
schoolwork, the rest is spent doing other things... like being a child!  The comment
about unschooling shows an example of why it is so misunderstood..., unschooling,
when done the way intended, doesn't mean that the kids spend all their time screwing
around and not learning anything. When someone actually unschools their children,
and doesn't use it as a convenient name for not teaching, they spend a whole lot of
time learning, it's just not structured like a "school". For one thing, it's very child-led,
they learn about what they want to learn about pretty much when they want to learn
about it. In my experience, this works out for the best because most children learn
significantly quicker, more thoroughly, and certainly more easily when they are
interested in the material. Unschooling, however, is one that favors people who are
good with spontaneity, because they have to be ready at a moment's notice to find
and present material that will interest their children. Anyway! lol enough about
unschooling...socializing! Socializing is one thing that I think is way blown out of
proportion when it comes to schooling. First of all, what are you children in school for?
To learn academics, right? Doesn't most of the socializing that happens in school get
in the way of learning other things? It sure did when I was in school. In my experience,
the homeschooled children I have met have significantly better social skills than
nearly all of the public or private schooled kids. Part of that, I believe, is due to them
not being so immersed in the social atmosphere that accompanies public (and a lot
of private) schools. Children learn good social skills from older children and adults
who exhibit good social skills, not from a bunch of peers who know as little or less
about how to interact with people. Now that is not to say that they can't benefit from
socializing with their peers, but I do think it's to their detriment to be immersed in
that kind of socialization for 8 hours a day.
Anyway, again! Sorry if this sounds combatative, it's not meant to, I just feel quite
strongly about this. I'm sure you'll hear more from me in the future! lol Homeschooling
is just so misunderstood, and it drives me batty!
So, back to where to start! The first place to start is with showing your spouse that
homeschooling is the right choice... if you're not both on board for it, it will be an
unsuccessful venture. One of the best ways to do that is to start with
vacations/holidays when there is no school and even after school. Start teaching your
children at these times, and your spouse will be able to see and experience the
difference, and you will both be able to get a bit of a feel for if it is right for you. I
strongly caution against doing too much after school work though, most kids are run
down by the end of the day when they're going to school.
There is a wealth of information on the internet for people looking to start
homeschooling, and a lot of it is good. You can try doing a search for homeschool
groups or co-ops in your area, and they can tell you more about what you need to do,
and what you have available, in your area. There are also a lot of yahoo groups for
homeschoolers. I've even come across a Pagan online school where you can also
just purchase the curriculum and teach it yourself. They are at
http://www.goddessmooncirclesacademy.org/index.html I've not used them but have
heard good things about them. For teaching your daughter to read, a good site is
http://www.starfall.com it's free and has lots of games and little stories. That is where
my daughter has done most of her learning to read, and it helped a lot with reteaching
my son after pulling him out of public school. If you want a base curriculum that
you can try out on a month by month basis (they also give a free trial) you can check
out http://www.time4learning.com . I use that as a base curriculum for both of my kids.
I hope some of this information can help you out, and I wish you the best of luck
whatever way you go! 
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5/13/2009, 5:28 pm
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TexasMadness
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Re: I want to do homeschooling
Kay - I agree with what you are saying. I may have sounded flippant about the "unschooling" thing...but that's why I used quotes! She is literally not teaching her kids a thing. They live on a homestead and not even taught about animal care, etc. They just laze around and play video games all day. THAT is "unschooling"!!! I know about the real unschooling train of thought and I don't necessarily have a problem with it. I can see how it might be harder for a kid to fit into a cog-type job, but the whole point of unschooling would be to be able to get a BETTER job than that!
Socializing is a tough thing. The homeschooled kids I know that have grown up in the country with NO OTHER CONTACT besides their family have all been "off" if you ask me. I think kids NEED to be with their peers and with more than just their family - unless it is the old style family with 10-15 people (aunts, uncles, grandparents) in close contact rather than just mom and dad. Some people that lived down the road from us growing up literally had no one besides us to ever see. Neither (adult) son has ever moved from the house or had a normal relationship (friendship or otherwise) with anyone besides their parents. I believe that humans are pack or herd animals and do need to learn from others on what is expected from them. This is best done with more than a single role model.
I agree that public school is not the optimum choice for socialization though. I think a sports team where you learn cooperation, or 4-H or simply a circle of friends that go camping is fine. Isolation of kids just doesn't seem the right way to go.
And of course, there is no one "right" way to do it. But there are plenty of ways to screw it up as I've seen first hand. Doing it right will mean different things to different people, but in the end, you want a kid that will turn into a successful person - again, meeting your own personal (or more appropriately, your grown child's) definition of successful.
Last edited by TexasMadness, 5/13/2009, 6:19 pm
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5/13/2009, 6:16 pm
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Saijen SilverWolf
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Re: I want to do homeschooling
First of all,
there is no "right" way to homeschool...
Sure there is...it's the way that's actually TEACHING a child something, rather than the way that's NOT teaching anyone anything. "Right way" depends on what curiculum you choose, your personal preferences, and a host of other things....but yeah, there is a right way, and a wrong way to homeschool.
and
you don't have to have any special training to do it.
That truly depends on what state you are in. The state of Tennessee will not allow a person to homeschool that does not have a teaching certificate...not a degree....but a certificate. You have to prove that you're capable of teaching a child....you have to go through some classes to earn that certificate.
Socializing is one thing that I think is way blown out of proportion when it comes to schooling. First of all, what are you children in school for?
To learn academics, right? Doesn't most of the socializing that happens in school get
in the way of learning other things?
I have to disagree, to a point, based on what I know from dealing with homeschooled kids in the past. Back to my niece and nephew....they think anyone in a public school is not worthy of their friendship, because they are so much better. I hate to say it, my my niece and nephew are snobs to the inth degree, and while homeschooling alone did not do this, it had it's place. On the other hand, some kids I knew that were homeschooled were very socially adept, but they were part of a larger homeschooling program that got together often.
Socialization is something that is learned better with peers than with the adults around you if you're a kid. Don't take that the wrong way.....adults play a role in helping kids learn how to maneuver around in this world, but how can you explain certain things to a child that has never experienced it? Ok....I'm not sure I'm getting across what I am trying to say very well.
A kid does not have to be in public school to learn decent social skills, but, it helps if they are involved in some type of activity with others their age to hone the social skills they are learning!
Yes, a child is in school to learn academics, but to also learn how to find their way in the maze of humanity through social skills, which, as stated above, can come through other activities other than school.
Another thing that tends to be forgotten is what your state will, or will not accept. Having gone through this mess with my youngest daughter several years ago, I was astounded at what I was told.
She had homeschooled when she was living with her father, going through an online program that the state of Alabama accepted. When she moved up here, we intended to continue with the same program, but found out we couldn't. The state of Tennessee did not recognize that program as one they would accept. So, our options were to join a Christian group, which we had no desire to do (that was the only accepted groups here....the Christian ones) or, she had to go back to the 9th grade....she was a junior!! If we couldn't prove one way or the other that she was in school, then I would get in trouble for her truancy and end up in jail. SO....back to the 9th grade she went (we couldn't afford the homeschooling programs here anyway), with the knowledge that she could eventually request to enter the GED study class and take her GED via the high school.
So...be very careful about telling someone they can just do it. That may not be the case where they are. If I had followed that advice, I would have ended up in jail.
ALWAYS....always check to see what the state laws are regarding homeschooling where you are. It's always best to CYA!!!
By the way....welcome aboard, KayJaye.
--- Blessed Be,
~*~ Saijen ~*~
~~*~~  .~~*~~ |
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5/13/2009, 7:29 pm
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KayJaye
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Re: I want to do homeschooling
TM (is it ok if I use TM? lol), the lack of socialization and learning you're talking about really bothers me on so many levels... but to me, that has nothing to do with homeschooling, and everything to do with irresponsible parenting. If the parents are responsible, they will make sure that their children are exposed to an array of different people on a regular basis. Saijen, hi! I agree with you in that children do need to hone their social skills with their peers, but I still believe that good social skills are learned from people who have had time to hone them themselves. Of course, practicing them and learning them are two different things. My son started out in a public kindergarten (same school I started out in as a matter of fact) and he went into that class as one of the most well rounded, well behaved and sociable kids I've met in my life. After a few months, he had picked up so many bad things from the other kids that I almost didn't know my own son! I ended up pulling him out and homeschooling for a number of reasons, and within a few months, he was back to his usual self. I've had many people comment about how well adjusted my children seem to be and how well they interact with other people. After moving here we tried the public school thing again, and my son's teacher was always raving about how wonderful he was, and how she used him as an example of how to behave and how to interact with eachother. Within 2 months she had called me to tell me that my son threatened to kill a little girl in his class because they got into an argument over a pencil! Behavior like that is something that I and anyone who knows my son never, ever envisioned him exhibiting! It all came back to the way he saw the other children interacting, and he though it was "cool" to threaten people because of the other kids doing it. Unfortunately, it took longer to regain his usual demeanor after the second time, but he has since become a model "citizen" once again. Maybe I've just had bad luck between my years in the public school system and the short time my son has spent there... I don't know. I'm certainly not one who believes that socialization isn't a necessary part of growing up and learning. I just think that the fear of lack of socialization is no reason, at all, to decide against homeschooling, there are so many other social opportunities out there that are much more useful for learning (and practicing) good social skills. As far as right way and wrong way, well... in my opinion, if you're not teaching anything, you're not homeschooling, which would, to me, mean that it's not a wrong way to homeschool, it's not a way at all. I suppose I could have said, that as long as you are actually teaching your children, you can't really go wrong. I also could have been more clear about what I meant when I said you don't have to have any special training. I did forget to add the disclaimer about laws being different in different places! What I meant is that, to homeschool your child/children successfully, you do not have to have any special training, not that you might not have to go through some training if it is required by law in your area.... does that make more sense or less? lol Anyway, husband just got home from work and I'm distracted so making less and less sense as I type more. Hope I made my thoughts a little more clear this time! 
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5/13/2009, 10:44 pm
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Blitzen
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Re: I want to do homeschooling
Thanks for the advice.
As to the religion in schools, I live in the UK so schools are religion aren't seperate. You can go to a Catholic school and pray after every lesson, or to a Protestant (all-denomination) school and pray at church services (Easter, Christmas) and learn how Christianity is the best religion.
{choke choke swear choke}
I'm going to supplement out of school for now. I'm not to bothered about the socialising aspect, actually - in our street there is 20 houses and 12 kids. With number 13 on the way. And all our mates have kids, we watch theirs and they watch ours and so on. And my eldest goes to swimming lessons and Girl Guides. It's not like we live in a farm.
But I'm going to add my education to the schools; I did nothing over the Easter fortnight to see what the effect would be - she's forgotten how to read!
And thanks again.
---
Quick! Competition! Vote for your favourite comic scripts
http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?showtopic=90564&st=20
It's not clicky, though, sorry
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5/14/2009, 7:01 pm
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PerpetuallyCurious
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Re: I want to do homeschooling
This has been a very interesting and at times.... a very entertaining thread
(absolutely no disrespect to anyone intended)
It's kinda like religion, everyone is right and everyone is wrong.
(boy that statement could sure open a huge can of worms! LOL )
I homeschool my children. Why?? My mother was a freespirit when I was growing up, thus I attended 17 different schools in 3 different states. I had a LOT of bad experiences with the public education system. Mainly because I was always wanting to move ahead and constantly being held back to "stay with the class average". That is wrong! So I chose to take charge of my education from a young age (I read anything and everything I can get my hands on, and still do).
Out of all those schools I only had 4 teachers who were what I would call "great" teachers. Several were "okay". Many were horrible.
My sister, who is almost 12 years younger then I, attended the highest rated school system in that side of the state (my mother settled down by the time she was in 2nd grade). I love her dearly but she hasn't a clue. She's 21 now. She can't spell. She has no concept of logic. She is unable to do anything more then basic math without a calculator and she has no concept of the world beyond herself or how things work.
She is the norm for her generation, NOT the exception.
Before my wife and I married we made a pact. One of us would always be home with the children, and we would homeschool them.
I have done extensive research into various avenues of homeschooling and have come to the realization that there is no "proper" way to homeschool. I have two dear friends who have had fantastic success homeschooling their children.
Friend "A" has four kids. Child #1 is completing his second year at a very highly rated private college with complete and full scholarships & other funding (meaning NO out of pocket expenses nor loans). Child #2 just graduated this Spring, was accepted into several highly rated private colleges, and he also is getting a complete and full ride to his college of choice with NO out of pocket expenses. The other two are still at home and doing very well.
Friend "B" has two children who chose to go the military route and both scored so high that they are going the Officer training route.
One friend went the route of a free-flowing "unschooling" type program. The other did the more formal specified K - 12 program route. Both have had tremendous success.
I also have acquaintances "C" and "D" whose kids will be lucky to ever attend college due to the parents being convinced that "life learning" is all they'll ever need. That is the fault of the parents, not the homeschooling concept itself. With that kind of attitude it's doubtful they would do well in a public school either.
Friends "A" and "B" are my role models but I am creating my own path with my children. My oldest is 4 1/2 and knows his letters, numbers, and can read & write simple words. He can identify nearly every animal across the globe and tell you their habitat and eating habits. My second oldest is 2 1/2 and is not far behind.
I went to college twice, the last time being 4 years ago. Both times I was absolutely astounded by how little the majority of my fellow students knew! They could hardly follow simple directions, most of them could not write a college paper to save their life, and they didn't even understand basic algebra let alone the basic tenets of scientific theory. What did they learn in 13 years of public education? My mother-in-law teaches at Western Michigan University and she confirms this repeatedly. She spends more time catching kids up to the basics then she does teaching the subject she has been hired to teach (due to administrative pressure she can't just fail them..... they have to protect their "reputation").
Our education system across the board is broken. There's no other way to put it. Therefore I refuse to subject my kids to it. I KNOW I can do a much better job.
Socialization can not be used as a determining factor in homeschooling. There are kids in public school who are severely lacking in social skills. There are homeschooled kids who are severely lacking in social skills. It's up to the parents of BOTH to see to the proper upbringing of thier children.
What is the number one cause of failed relationships? Lack of communication!!! If they had the proper socialization skills and knew how to communicate properly, there wouldn't be so many failed relationships. Every study/psychologist/whathaveyou's says so. Where are most people educated? The public school system. I rest my case on that subject.
As for our own personal homeschooling path, it's a complete hodgepodge. I am in charge of all subjects except for English. That was my wife's favorite subject and the only subject I hated (other then reading of course!). I couldn't tell an adjective from and adverb and could care less. 
Wow, I rambled all over the place. I must blame the late hour!! LOL
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5/15/2009, 7:33 am
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PerpetuallyCurious
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Re: I want to do homeschooling
Saijen SilverWolf wrote:
and
you don't have to have any special training to do it.
That truly depends on what state you are in. The state of Tennessee will not allow a person to homeschool that does not have a teaching certificate...not a degree....but a certificate. You have to prove that you're capable of teaching a child....you have to go through some classes to earn that certificate.
That may have been true at some point in the past, but not now. If you've taught school then I'm sure you know the Home School Legal Defense Association as the premier group/site for up to date homeschooling laws??
Here's the Tennessee page
http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/Tennessee.pdf
You are essentially free to teach your child through 8th grade as you are, and must have a BA degree to teach them through 9 - 12th UNLESS you wish to throw religion/church into the mix...... then you have free reign.
(yes I purposely made it a bit simpler then it actually is for conversations sake, thus why I threw up the link).
The only reason that knowledge was fresh in my head is because we have decided to move south and I've investigated the homeschooling laws of the states we're interested in throughly this last week. Have talked to several current homeschoolers in TN & NC
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5/15/2009, 7:44 am
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Fenyx
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Re: I want to do homeschooling
Curious - You're coming South!
And on the topic of Homeschooling, there is also correspondence school. My youngest did it for 9-12th grades, done in 2 years, $30 a class (at that time), and get an accredited diploma at the end of it.
There was a teacher via phone, only two subjects at a time.
She is smart. She was 1032 SAT at 12 yrs old, and she's only taken the ACT once and got 32 out of 36 and 20 is 'normal'. She is also a stay at home mom to a boy about to be 6, girl 4, girl about to be 3, and a new boy 6 mo old. They are totally expecting to homeschool the children.
Also, on socialization - most of the intense arts and athletes do homeschooling so they can train in the hours that are free as the rest of the world is in public school. Also, they then do not have to ask for excuse slips to compete.
Good luck on what you decide is best for you.
And remember to "never underestimate the power of your child's mind". They are sponges to learning.
Fenyx
--- 
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5/16/2009, 4:49 am
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Saijen SilverWolf
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Re: I want to do homeschooling
I think when I mentioned the socializing in my second attempt to get my thoughts going, I did say it did not have to be in a school setting, but they needed some type of interactivity with kids their own ages....not in those words, but that was the sentiment. Most of you know I have kind of been out of it..lol. KayJaye, I agree mostly with what you said, I just didn't get that you got what I said...ok...did that make any sense at all?
Curious...yes, through the 8th grade, you don't have to worry much about anything here....BUT, my daughter was 17 at the time, a Junior through her homeschool program she was using, but TN refused to accept it as and her credits, so, we had to put her back in the 9th grade to start over again, as it were. She was also doing a correspondence type homeschooling like Fenyx's daughter, just not the same one. I'm not even sure TN would have accepted the one her daughter used. All I know is we had a real problem on our hands and I did a LOT of talking to school counselor and the superintendant of schools here, I even called Nashville at one point trying to do anything other than putting her back in the 9th grade. It didn't work. All is well now, though. That was 8 years ago.
I totally agree what public school is certainly nothing special. They push the kids through regardless, and it's extremely wrong.
If I had been able to handle homeschooling, I probably would have, but thankfully, my girls didn't do too badly. Like most kids, they didn't always make the best choices in life..and still don't (neither do I at times), but they are both very articulate, and smart. It doesn't always show, but I've had enough conversations with them to know they know more than most people think they do. My oldest, I did not have the pleasure of raising. Her adoptive parents also put her in public school, and she's very intelligent.
I think some of the problem is not just the kids, but some teachers...now, don't y'all get all over me...but some teachers just don't really care..they are there for a paycheck. They started out caring, but it got lost somewhere along the way. As a sub teacher at one time, I saw it way too much. Of course...if the kids all don't care..why should the teacher? It's a catch 22 at times.
As for the right way/wrong way issue, I don't think I can be any plainer. There are a miriad of right ways to homeschool, and there are several wrong ways...the worst, of course, being not actually bothering to teach. If you want me to elaborate, I'll do my best...otherwise I'll leave it alone.
I applaude those that actually homeschool their kids, and allow them to be kids, as well as help introduce them to other forms of socialization, such as learning karate, or ballet, or a community ball team, etc. I never said they had to learn socialization from a public school. I think that would be the worst place to learn it....I mean..look at KayJaye's examples with her son. When I subbed, I was amazed at how awful some of the kids were, and most of them, I knew their parents. I talked to the father of one of the boys I had in a class after having to take a knife off the boy...they lived 2 doors down from me, and the father got all up in my face, basically telling me to mind my own business. I informed him I was minding my own business, that when a child brings a weapon into MY classroom, it becomes my business. The father was as much a bully as his boys were. Not all kids learn it at home, I know...but in that case...yeah!
Most homeschooled kids I have come across are better mannered (notice I said most)...can carry on a polite conversation and actually know what you're talking about.
I hope y'all didn't think I was anti-homeschooling, because I'm certainly not....but I don't want anyone to walk into homeschooling blindly, either. It pays to have conversations like this, even if it appears that someone seems to be wrong....you get better info this way 
KayJaye, I hope I did not offend you...or anyone else for that matter. That certainly was not my intention. I just feel that when someone is considering doing something like this, they really need to look at it from all sides, not just the pro side of the issue.
Blitzen, I truly hope that you and your wife and sort this out and that you are able to do as you'd like to. I think the kids would be better off being homeschooled!
--- Blessed Be,
~*~ Saijen ~*~
~~*~~ .~~*~~ |
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5/19/2009, 12:25 am
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southernfriedwiccan
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Re: I want to do homeschooling
I t should be mentioned that homeschooling is more more social now than it was in the past. Homeschool parents are banning together to form groups and then they organize more public school like events. I know of homschool little league teams, homeschool theatre productions, homeschool field trips, and even homeschool dances. Groups even organize "classes" where say one parent can play guitar and gives a guitar class. The lack of socialization has really been taken out of the equation. The internet has been a blessing to homeschoolers.
Te biggest problem with modern schooling is it has gone beyond its original purpose either because of the parents being overworked, lazy, or for some other reason unable to teach their children. American public school began as a means of teaching children what their parents could not. Now the schools function as an additional parent. They are expected to teach our children moral and social skills. These were suppose to be taught by the parent while the system was to cover reading, higher arithmetic, exposure to literature, and the similar possibly unexcessable knowledge.
---
Bobby
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5/19/2009, 9:01 am
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