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Nicci72
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The power of love...
I will add here something very off-topic - even if the title of this thread sounds for the first not like this.
As I´ve told here by the way somewhere I´m in my free time not only engaged into toplessness but also into shooting. I´m a member of the "Deutscher Schützenbund" (German Federation of Shooters) which is one of two major roof organizations in Germany who have beyond the hunters the right by law to own weapons (the German weapon law is very strict). The roots of this organization are located deeply into the history of the 19th century, in the building-time of the German national state. It has traditionally a very military outlook and standards of the "real" army (e.g. we carry uniform and the orders and commanding structure are similar to the "real" army).
Last weekend we had now our yearly shooters festival and at this occasion the "Großer Zapfenstreich" (= Great Tatoo I think in English, hopefully I´m not wrong) was given for the reason of an anniversary. This ceremony is the highest military honor in Germany, in our organization as well as in the "real" German armed forces. It has it´s origins in the tradition of the Prussian army (the German national state was founded in the 19th century by Prussia). So far so good - or bad, as you like (and, please, don´t be shocked that I own guns and pistols and love shooting; we German females have only since round about ten years the right to become "official" soldiers - and the weapon-madness is not only an American illness as Michael Moore has suggested).
But now the interesting part of my little story is coming. Or better: The astonishing. At least for me. And maybe for someone else here, too.
The "Great Tatoo" is in the Prussian/ German tradition very different from the British one. And the most different part of this ceremony comes near to the end: It starts with the most famous command of the German military forces. The acting commander gives the order: "Helm ab zum Gebet!" ("Helmets down for praying!") Than the soldiers or shooters are taking off slowly their steel helmets, holding them in front of their heards. And than, after a minute of total silence, the overwhelming pathetic music starts playing the "Gebet der preußischen Armee" (the "praying of the Prussian army"):
"Ich bete an die Macht der Liebe,
die sich in Jesus offenbart.
Ich geb´ mich hin dem vollen Triebe,
durch den auch ich geliebet ward.
Ich will, anstatt an mich zu denken,
mich ganz ins Meer der Liebe versenken."
I try to translate it - beyond the fact that it´s not possible to translate all religious-sexuell connotations as well as the really astonishing female perspective which it has in the German language:
"I pray onto the power of love
which is revealing in Jesus.
I give myself to the full drive
through which I was loved, too.
I want, instead of thinking at me,
immerse myself into the ocean of love."
Than another minute of total silence. And than the clear and hard order from the commander: "Helm auf!" ("Helmets up!")
Maybe it´s the most impressive invocation of love which the German literature owns. And it´s seen in today´s Germany as the most problematic one and in heavy critic, too.
To add only three critical arguments at this place:
- Soldiers are praying onto much powers, mostly onto the power of violence, but at least onto the "power of love".
- This praying has it´s origins in the meagre, authoritarian, anti-democratic Prussian military state, in other words in the worst German tradition.
- The German armed forces during the Nazi-dictatorship gave this famous ceremony, too. The "praying of the Prussian army" inclusive. And they definitely had not prayed to the "power of love". And they left not an "ocean of love" but an ocean of bloodshed.
So, taking part voluntarily in such a ceremony and not by order of the government give you in many German eyes the colour of being connected with obscourious right-wing-circle`s and/ or of being unable to learn something from the German history. Similar to the fact that females wants to join the "real" army voluntarily, wants to have guns and wants shooting - instead of being happy not to have this obligation as the males.
On the other side I must confess that I´m totally fascinated from this ceremony - as well as from guns. Maybe it´s my private little (or great) madness. Maybe a special German one: I think not many other armies and para-military organizations in the world will have such a "praying" in their ceremonies.
I would be interested in how your impressions are about this matter. How would it sound in American and British ears when a highly pathetic song would be added to the major part of a public military ceremony in which the soldiers are praying onto the "power of love" from a female perspective - including clear sexual connotations?
So much off-topic - next time more again from toplessness.
Yours Nicci
Last edited by Nicci72, 6/16/2008, 9:06 am
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6/16/2008, 9:00 am
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400cafe
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Re: The power of love...
Interesting words. If I remember correctly the Prussian Army was founded to ward off invaders. I'm guessing the soldiers are praying to fight with the same drive as when they have make love to a women. Again I'm guessing here that the ocean of love part refers to a women's love?
In different words; it seems to me the soldiers are praying that the Love from Jesus strengthen them with the same drive as when they make love with a women. Talk about a focused warrior. Cool stuff.
So is there a word or phrase that women could substitute so they could be strengthened as when they make love to a man?
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6/16/2008, 12:35 pm
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richnh
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Re: The power of love...
Interesting cultural tradition. Fascinating even. Germany has long been known to be a nation with a warrior tradition. It's natural that such ceremonies would exist in such a culture.
There are some other things I'm curious about but I think I'll send my questions via PM.
Rich
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6/16/2008, 6:07 pm
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Nicci72
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Re: The power of love...
quote:
400cafe wrote:
Interesting words. If I remember correctly the Prussian Army was founded to ward off invaders. I'm guessing the soldiers are praying to fight with the same drive as when they have make love to a women. Again I'm guessing here that the ocean of love part refers to a women's love?
In different words; it seems to me the soldiers are praying that the Love from Jesus strengthen them with the same drive as when they make love with a women. Talk about a focused warrior. Cool stuff.
So is there a word or phrase that women could substitute so they could be strengthened as when they make love to a man?
Dear 400cafe and dear Rich,
that´s the problem of all translations: it´s nearly impossible to translate the connotations of the words so that´s not possible to translate the imaginations which words have for a native speaker. You must always add a long commentary. E.G. in the case of this praying: "Ich geb´ mich hin dem vollen Triebe..." in combination with love you would normally in the German language not use when you mean a pure spiritual love: "Trieb" is not totally equal to "drive", it has a very clear sexual connotation in German when the talking is about love. And "Hingabe" (= "ich geb´mich hin") has not the same connotation as "I give myself", it means a passive self-exposition to a penetration. Add now the fact that Jesus was a male and that the music in the last sentence paints really a kind of orgasm - what else should I imagine?
Of course I can understand such sentences only with my female brain. Perhaps a male brain can read something very different in this text. But I feel me touched at my most intimate feelings because it paints how it is when I´ve sexual intercourse with a male and how I feel when he brings me to an orgasm with his best piece. I talked with some girlfriends about this and they said to me that this "praying" gives them the feeling of being surprised in their bedrooms with their hubbies or lovers, too. And such a love song in such a military context - it´s still very astonishing for me!
Perhaps it´s not too boring to add here some remarks and informations about the whole ceremony and it´s history for a better understanding. The "Great Tattoo" (very different - as I´ve said - from the international much better known British one) is a combination of six pieces out of four centuries:
- The Prussian army was founded during the late Thirty-years-war in the 1640ies by the "Great Elector" Friedrich Wilhelm of Brandenburg-Prussia when most of his territory was annexed and destroyed by Swedish and Catholic troups. The oldest part (which later becomes part three) goes back to that time. It´s the trumpet sign for the cavalry to stop the attack in a battle and to come back to their flag. You can hear it three times in different ways: first short and sharp for the soldiers who can still fight, second silent and longer for the injured ones who cannot longer fight, third very pathetic and long for the killed soldiers who will never come back.
- This repeated trumpet sign of the cavalry (called "retraite") became in the early 18th century (especially under the rule of the so-called "soldiers king" Friedrich Wilhelm I. of Prussia) ceremonial function. So two pieces where added before the "retraite":
-- The opening march "Preussens Glorie" ("Prussias glory") which is a kind of a typical "tschingderassabum"-march.
-- The so-called "serenade" as piece number two: an open part in which the honorated guest has two or three music wishes free, equal what they´re.
- In the year 1813 Prussia was occupied by the French troups under Napoleon and the Prussian king Friedrich Wilhelm III. acted as a kind of governor for Napoleon. When the French emperor was defeated in Russia during the winter 1812/1813 the Prussian Field marshall Graf (count) Yorck von Wartenburg started with his army corps an open rebellion against his king, joined against explicit orders with his troups the Russian army and crushed the French one out of the territory of Prussia. After this great succes of a High treason the Prussian king was forced by his advisers to add two more pieces to the "Great Tattoo" as symbolic policy to become his army again under his control:
-- as piece number four the "praying of the Prussian army"
-- as last piece a march composed by Ludwig van Beethoven in honoration of Field marshall Yorck von Wartenburg (and until today every "Great tattoo" ends with this honoration of that Prussian High treasoner who otherwise would be hanged without any doubt).
- After the end of the First World War and the end of the monarchy in Germany the first democratic elected German president Friedrich Ebert added the German national anthem as piece number five to show that this ceremony has not only a Royal Prussian meaning but also a democratic and republican German one.
In this form this military ceremony is played until today in Germany - not only from the official armed forces but also from every organization which is a "weapon-carrier" (but from no one else).
Best greetings,
yours Nicci
Last edited by Nicci72, 6/17/2008, 4:05 am
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6/17/2008, 3:54 am
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femsup
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Re: The power of love...
Do you maintain your freedom and go topfrei when you take part in practice or competition? As you yourself say there is a duality and dichotomy in what you do.Whereas you could say there is a militaristic and violent aspect there is also the fact that as a Womyn you are usurping male perogatives and domains and taking them for your own.
I wuish you the best of luck if you are in competition soon.
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6/18/2008, 9:26 pm
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400cafe
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Re: The power of love...
Thanks for the clarifications Nicci.
It still was not making total sense so I went to the internet, searched "Großer Zapfenstreich", and watched a couple of videos of the ceremony. Wow! This a very somber and in my opinion very masculine ceremony. These are very tough men who do this ceremony. It's a great tradition full of history.
From what you are writing there is some negative history of this ceremony. I would argue that the negative part is part of the history of the cerremony. Therefore all aspects, the negative and the positive have a place in the history of this ceremony.
So if you engage in this ceremony some folks won't like it? So what is the big deal? I learned along time ago my opinion of myself does not come from others.
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6/19/2008, 10:01 am
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Nicci72
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Re: The power of love...
Dear 400cafe,
maybe the problem is that we Germans have a broken tradition and everything what is German and older than 1945 is suspicious in our own eyes.
Yes, and to engage in this ceremony as female means to get for this time a "masculine" outlook, too:
I look funny in my uniform, with a steel helmet on my head and a lot of orders hanging in front of my boobs . You would not expect that I´m the same woman if you saw me first topless and with a g-string at the beach  .
But all females must change to such a more masculine outfit because they have to wear uniforms and handle with weapons like males when they join the armed forces or a para-military organization. A shooting place is definitely not the right place for a miniskirt and High-heels.
Best greetings,
yours Nicci
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6/20/2008, 2:41 am
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Nicci72
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Re: The power of love...
Dear femsup,
there´s no competition between my topless lifestyle and my engagement in weapons and shooting. I´m not a simple female, I´ve different sides which often doesn´t compare to each other: I´m a serious researcher and hard-working administrator of my institute, I´m a passionated party-girl dancing often drunken on the tables, I´m a pious catholic christian engaged in the church and an exhitionistic nudie loving it to show off so much and so often as possible, a left-wing pacifist and totally fascinated by weapons, uniforms and everything else what has to do with military matters.
My "usurping" of a male prerogative was in my personal experience easy and linked with a good feeling. For the first because female membership in the "Deutscher Schützenbund" is possible since much more years than in the official armed forces. But mainly because I like it to be together with males from which many are young and in a good shape; I´m shooting so good as they do (and much better as many of them to say the truth) and it´s not easy to drink me under the table. (beyond any joke: the most important matters to show them that you´re equal as a female are: you can shoot and you can drink).
So I´ve never had any problems - and so far as I can see most of the males are enjoying the membership of us females, too. Mixing the sexes gives everywhere a better atmosphere and in the following better working results - in (para-)military organizations as well as in companies.
Best greetings,
yours Nicci
Last edited by Nicci72, 6/20/2008, 4:39 am
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6/20/2008, 4:34 am
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GerritJ9
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Re: The power of love...
Personally, I'd guess that what is meant by the prayer is "Liebe zum Vaterland"..... somehow it makes sense in the context of an original army ceremony.
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6/20/2008, 4:52 pm
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femsup
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Re: The power of love...
Thank you Nicci72 for your reply.More strengthto your arm and may your aim be true.
I support you wholeheartedly in your endeavours to equal and better the men in your organisation.
You are right organisations which have mixed memebership are always better.
We are all made up of contradictions and thats what makes you fascinating.Glad to hear that you are a left wing pacifist.
Love Femsup
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6/22/2008, 4:03 pm
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