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jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
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Wheel to Flywheel Power Conversion


Hi Guys,

I am trying to establish a relation between at the wheels power vs. at the flywheel power and was wondering if you know the formula to calculate this.

We always see manufacturers quote the flywheel power figures, but when we do performance mods and dyno our cars, we get at the wheels figure which is obviously less, so it would be good to get an idea how much at the flywheel we ended-up getting to put into perspective and compare it to the factory set-up.

If you know the way to calculate this, please post it here.

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17/Jan/2008, 12:57 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
Y WAIT Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2005
Location: central coast nsw
TOTAL POSTS: 1123
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Re: Wheel to Flywheel Power Conversion


I dont think you will find an exact formula for this as every car will be different. Even in the exy there will be a difference between using 2wd and auto ( with auto mode sucking more power)

 The best way to work it out would be to take you stock ATW dyno, and work out the drive line loss as a percentage, than add that to your current ATW figure.

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17/Jan/2008, 1:03 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
basshead Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: Panania, Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 2852
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Re: Wheel to Flywheel Power Conversion


There are some rough guides discussed here:

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/technical-forums/29111-drivetrain-loss.html

I tend to agree with one of the comments in the above thread, that no car is the same.



Get the calculator ready for this one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower


You might need to get these spec's from Nissan directly...


Remember every dyno is also different...


Last edited by basshead, 17/Jan/2008, 8:19 pm


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17/Jan/2008, 6:20 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN Yahoo Blog
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
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Re: Wheel to Flywheel Power Conversion


I found THIS converter, but it's also pretty limited in what it can calculate.

I realize that each car is different, just wanted to find out the approximate figures, but I agree that for that we would need to know the exact loss caused by the exy driveline.

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Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
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Re: Wheel to Flywheel Power Conversion


Is the loss a percentage or a fixed power amount ?
Surely friction does not change as power changes.

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18/Jan/2008, 7:24 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Naff Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2005
Location: QLD
TOTAL POSTS: 786
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Re: Wheel to Flywheel Power Conversion


It'd be a percentage surely... it's the losses resulting from the gear ratio and friction etc. So as Matt said, if you took a stock dyno result, and then took the flywheel result and calculated the percentage loss between them, you would then be able to apply that figure to the mod dyno results.

Here's a link... Flywheels Vs Wheels suggests that for a FWD car, the loss is 15%, and for AWD, 25%.

I'd say every car, even within the same make is different. The transmission and drivetrain, depending on it's age, wear etc. will have different resistance. And I would suggest that the 132kW figure given by Nissan is a maximum value and most of the cars would be slightly less, probably within a -10% tolerance.




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18/Jan/2008, 7:39 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
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Re: Wheel to Flywheel Power Conversion


OK Guys,

I have worked it out as Matt suggested from the dyno charts I have and our xtrail (Auto that is) is loosing about 40-45% in driveline, which is massive indeed.

We have previously discussed this in the Hi-Tech Exhaust thread HERE

Based on these figures and since I have a total of 34KW extra at the wheels (99.5KW total ATW), it would translate to approx. 188.6KW (34/0.6= 56.6 +132= 188.6) at the flywheel compared to a stock auto exy with 132KW at the flywheel.

That's 16.4KW less than an xtrail GT at the flywheel (which outputs 205KW) emoticon

If I can get those 16.4KW extra, I won't need to worry about buying a GT. hehehehehe LOL emoticon

Last edited by jalalski, 18/Jan/2008, 8:32 pm


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18/Jan/2008, 8:16 am Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
BRETT72 Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2005
Location: Orange. NSW.
TOTAL POSTS: 1999
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Re: Wheel to Flywheel Power Conversion


quote:

If I can get those 16.4KW extra, I won't need to worry about buying a GT.


 Jalal, have you consider a 'balance shaft removal'.

 This mod is big on the v-board, which has been our 'unofficial' reference tool for other mods. emoticon

 From my readings, the JWT KIT is the preffered one.

 Just a thought, but a quick 10hp for under $100 is the claim.


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BRETT72 - X235

18/Jan/2008, 10:18 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
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Re: Wheel to Flywheel Power Conversion


Hi Brett,

Yeah, I have researched this mod last year or the year before and didn't like it.

We have discussed it HERE

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18/Jan/2008, 10:31 am Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
BRETT72 Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2005
Location: Orange. NSW.
TOTAL POSTS: 1999
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Re: Wheel to Flywheel Power Conversion


Ok Jalal, I have found what you need. emoticon emoticon emoticon

NoS



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